Not disagreeing on that point, hence me saying "Yes and no" in my response to you.

However, in answer to the OP's original question, we disagree - I say, I'd re-scale it if it were mine, you say you wouldn't.

lol, its interesting stuff, but if the engine is safe and not detting is good to know, but im lost as to why you would fit mods to a car without a remap as your not going to see any power gains and added to that it MAY blow up due to detting.:cuckoo:

No I would re scale if need be , the point was , is it safe to fit just an induction kit , will it blow your engine ?

maybe it is maybe it isnt but the real question is surely whats the point of fitting an induction kit without a remap as your not seeing the power benefits.

i know your answering if its safe or not tone...

It's gettin confusing , the op wanted to know it he puts an induction kit on would he have to scale is maf ,,,
Or in simple terms will fitting an induction kit screw your maf ,fuelling + other bits and bobs Beyond what the ecu can compensate for

Tony

and the answer is .. it may be safe it may not be but is it worth risking an engine for the sake of putting an induction kit on ? At the very least you will not see any gains without mapping so what would be the point of putting it on. If you do see gains without mapping it is because it is screwing with the fueling... noone will know whether this is safe without it being expertly checked.

Indeed, two schools of mod-ers - those who care about their cars and those who care what other people think of their cars :D

The OP asked whether he should get his maf re-scaled rather than will it damage his engine if it doesn't and absolutely the right answer to whether he "should" rescale the MAF is yes, he "should" because that's best practice.

Whether it "will" damage his engine is a different question. In all probability, the ECU will be able to compensate for just fitting an induction kit, but there is still a possibility that bad data could cause issues such as poor fuel economy, bore wash, poor emissions, poor performance, etc.... it's not just about whether the induction kit will cause the engine to blow through det.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of cars out there running induction kits without causing any of the above issues but without checking you don't know for sure and are just gambling that it will be alright.

^ This. Though to appease Tony, you can check it yourself if you know what you're doing :)

In response to a lot of questions about why would I fit an induction kit without a remap well the simple reason is I had no choice, there was simply nowhere to install an air box.

Attachment 68451

You can just make out the induction kit to the left of the fuel tank.

Quality build... I suspect that's going to be quite a lot of fun!








...once you get it mapped! :D



PS No room for power steering or AC pumps either I see :)

you've not got to say owt to appease me mate , you know damn well I'm gonna do what I do regardless Lol

So we've established some cars will be ok with an induction and some will get the maf screwed up
Why is this , obviously Shaun's car is nowhere the same spec as mine and my mates bug is standard with a k&n kit
This is a genuine question , how have we got three different cars that have no maf issues
it can't be coincidence I'm sure

Tony

Pmsl , I think no one expected that ,
Cool project mate

The above quote would seem to suggest that there are at least a few examples where altering the induction has had a negative impact.

I'm not saying that its not possible to have a negative affect
But why are some cars not seeing a negative affect
Lets be honest I'm not the most orthodox tuner on here , but I cut my inlet up and reworked it to what looked like a logical set up that looked like it would work
And it did
Now yet again it could have been another toneh fluke
I'm not mr k&n or mr pipercross by any stretch
So when I read stuff about my car was running rich/lean it genuinely baffles me
To why folks are getting all these issues

Tony

Thanks for the comments guys it's been a long time in the making after spinning a shell on the original 98 turbo motor I upgraded a lot of things to accept the 2004 UK STi engine.
The vehicle is based very loosely on a VW beach buggy and is a full space frame chassis, engine is as above with a Bosch 044 fuel pump, fuel decay straight through exhaust, induction kit maybe a few extras when funds allow.
Best thing is it only weighs about 600KG :-) lol.

Each engine will have its own set of operating ideals so some will undoubtedly be closer to the edge of what the ECU can cope with in terms of compensation.

Also, who's to say that many of the cars that are "OK" are in fact not OK but that the owner just thinks its normal or simply doesn't notice.

So your thinking dirty maf sensor, tired injectors , ect could all add up to swaying the Balance and putting a induction kit on could be the straw that breaks the camels back ?

Tony

Manufacturing tolerances, engine wear, etc... all these things are why ECUs can learn and compensate after all.

Mmmm I can see that , makes sense I suppose

i will add my own experience.

I run permanent wideband fitted an inch or two away from oem lambda in downpipe.

Car ran low 11s on WOT with stock airbox.

Fitted aps cai went out a test, got on boost, afrs about 13. afrs on medium throttle were all over the place too.

Straight back and refitted airbox.

Did read about rescaling but thought i would adjust fpr to suit temp whilst waiting for remap. Moment i saw what a massive change induction kit made i scrapped that idea.

Is it a classic & what ecu mate

It is classic and ecutek, although no other changes were made. It was so bad i was looking for non existant air leak caused during fitting. Standard box back on and afrs went back to my normal.

I'm not sure mate , but I don't know if the late classic ecu,s have the same learning and adjustment capabilities as the new age ecu,s

Anyone

If you fit the 70mm APS, it will 100% need to rescale, no if buts ands or maybe's! ;)

Just been reading an old thread by jb , simon , paul (zen) on 22b about scaling for an Aps
inlet , interesting !
Btw both Perrin , k&n state , there kits maintain good fueling
Are we to hold these companys responsable for engine failure ?

Tony