No spark, at a lost end
 

Hi guys, my My00 uk 2000 turbo has been off the road for 6 months whilst I've been fitting a few new mods including the following;

The original spec was as follows;

Apexi avcr
N&n cone air filter
440 yellow injectors
Pfr6b ngks
Hdi hybrid front mount intercooler
Walbro 255 intank fuel pump
Aftermarket up-pipe
Decated
Bell mouth 3" to 2.5" downpipe
Custom made 2.5" straight through exhaust with power flow back box
Vf35 IHI turbo
aftermarket recirc dump valve
Standard internals


New spec;

What was already fitted
Apexi avcr
N&n cone air filter
Hdi hybrid front mount intercooler
Walbro 255 intank fuel pump
Aftermarket up-pipe
Decated
Bell mouth 3" to 2.5" downpipe
Custom made 2.5" straight through exhaust with power flow back box
Vf35 IHI turbo
aftermarket recirc dump valve
Standard internals

New fitted parts
Prosport boost, oil temp, oil pressure gauges
NGk pfr7bs
650 red reworked side feed injectors
1.5 ltr swirl pot
Bosch inline 910 fuel pump
Sytec high flow fuel filter
Parallel fuel rail setup 6an fittings and braided pipe
Carbon canister removed
Sytec 1:1 adjustable fpr with gauge
All engine breathers run to mocal catch can
Mocal oil cooler with thermostatic control
Uprated alloy rad with silicone hoses and twin slimline fans
Lightweight alloy pullies
4.3kg fidanza flywheel
Exedy stage 1 organic racing clutch
inlet manifold thermal spacers
4-1 unequal tubular manifold one piece with up-pipe,Ported, match faced with heads and turbo, titanium heat wrapped
Vf35 IHI turbo wastegate ported and exhaust housing match faced, fitted with forge actuator with 1bar spring, turbo blanket

Before it came off the road it was running like a dream, no problems. Has been in a dry garage since its been off the road.
Obviously a lot of things have been off including the inlet manifold.

Now it's all back together I'm not getting a spark on any of the cylinders.
Things I have checked;

There's power at the coil pack 4 wire connector

Everything is plug in and all plugs checked for damage or corrosion, checked all earths are connected and doing there job

Tested for fault codes and it came up code 11 crank position sensor

Crank position sensor is black, tryed swapping for another black crank sensor from another car, still nothing and showing code 11 even after resetting

Unplugged ecu (and battery) and using an ecu pin out diagram found the crank position sensor wires, put a 12v feed down them, tested at the sensor plug and power is getting down the circuit meaning everything is connected and have no broken wires.

I've got a brand new sensor coming tomorrow to try just incase.

I've also recently changed the cambelt which I'm 100% is spot on but even if it was out surely it would still spark just at the wrong time???

I've been looking at this for the past 3days solid but am not getting anywhere so a bit of knowledgable input would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Luke

Was the substitute crank sensor known to be good? Ie off another running car?
You definitely have to get the fault code cleared.
Is the pick up for the crank sensor ok?
How exactly did you test the wiring?

You put 12v down the feed wire? i may be wrong here but im pretty sure the ecu sends only low voltage to and from sensors, you may have toasted the wiring.

The crank sensor is more likely to be an inductive sensor that produces ac voltage, I think the op means he has disconnected at both ends then put 12v down for whatever reason!
An oscilloscope test whilst cranking is a sure fire way to know if the sensor and wiring are ok!

I got the substitute sensor from my local Subaru breakers which was apparently in good working Order but to be sure I've got a brand new blue print one coming tomorrow
Pick up is another thing to check, thanks.

Correct I put a 12v feed down the ecu end and an electrical tester at the other to make sure the circuit in between was ok I.e all connectors ok and no broken wires.

What do you mean by 'oscilloscope' test?
Thanks

An oscilloscope can be connected to the crank sensor to show a wave form of what it is actually doing. Do you have a 16 pin diagnostic socket on your car? Im sure on that year it has. Hook the car up ti a scanner that shows live data. When you crank the engine over you should be able to see the rpm going up either In text form or with a graph. If you see nothing happening chances are its going to be the crank sensor. Have you got an imobilizer thats maybe kicked in?

Yes it does have a diagnostic socket. Great another thing to check, thank you.
Only imobilizer on it is the original with the chip in the key, no aftermarket alarm or anything else. Does the original imobilizer imobilize just the spark or the starter and spark, never seen it work before as always started it with chip key?

I've also recently changed the cambelt which I'm 100% is spot on but even if it was out surely it would still spark just at the wrong time???

Just a quick update, fitted brand new crank sensor. Sill no difference.
Going to remove cambelt tomorrow and make sure there's no problem with the pick up.

Can you not inspect through the sensor hole? Will save you masses of hassle removing the belt. I think as you have not touched any thing pick up wise then it should be ok. Do you have access to any noid lights? That way you could check for signal at the coil. It does sound like a duff ecu at the min! Unfortunately, it's tough to prove Without noids or an oscilloscope.

I believe the immobilizer takes the signal to fuel pump away not the spark.

Just check you havn't fitted the cam position sensor connector to No.2 injector and injector to cam sensor. I done this years ago and took forever to find it!

That's a very good point as I have had a move around with the wires :thumb: cheers!

Like you say I really don't want to be stripping it down to check something that's perfectly fine. What is the pick up run off on the crank behind belt.

I'm in the motor trade so will as around a few of the local garages and find out if anyone local has noid lights or oscilloscope.

That's what I'm starting to think, ecu but thats An expensive elimination at the moment, especially after forking out £100 for a crank sensor which made no difference. Plus my ecu has an ecutek license on it. Is there any way of sending my ecu to some to be checked over like a mapper or someone?

Also do you think my lightweight crank pulley has the wrong offset or something and has pushed the inner toothed crank pulley out of line causing the pickup to be out of line? Don't know if this is possible, just another thought.
I brought my light weight pulleys off bay and were not listed for a particular model but fitted fine.

extremely unlikely unless the woodruff key has come out.

Is the fuel pump priming ?

Have you checked the main fuses in the engine bay? Main ecu fuse can sometimes go.

Are the main loom plugs connected on either side of the engine ? Are these resting against the HT leads? - they shouldnt be as this can cause signal problems and starting/running issues.

Have you used the correct marks when setting your valve timing?

Woodruff key has def. not come out as when turning over its turning the whole engine over I.e heads and crank.

Pump is priming.

Checked all fuses, all good.

All plugs are connected and not near the ht leads. Even when ht leads are removed I am not getting any power at the coil nipples.

Yes definitely. Before the old belt was removed I used some cam locking tools and the crank was on its mark and once fitted the new belt and pullies I turned the engine over 5-6 times and all maks lined up. There's two marks on the cams, one mark faces up(inlet cam) / down(ex cam) the other mark faces horizontal towards the outside of heads.

Even if timing was out surely it would still spark, just out of time?

the centre sproket has two marks on it also, an trianlge and a line. make sure the triangle is pointing to the right and the line upwards

Check to make sure you reconnected ALL the sensors if you removed the Inlet Manifold. When I did mine I was suprised how many sensors need to be disconnected just to take the manifold off.

Didn't manage to look at car today but did manage to get hold of a set of noid lights off a mate.
Talking to a few different people and everyone's thinking the ecu is shot. If I was to buy a used ecu I take it I would also need the chip out of the key for the immobiliser, also would I need the pick up that goes round the ignition barrel?

Are you sure the coil itself is not faulty? You said you had power up to the coil but nothing coming out?

Tryed a known working one on and made no difference also tryed my one on another car and worked fine

This..

Had a chance to look at this again all weekend. Still nothing!!
Rechecked timing, even tryed it 180 degrees to make sure it wasn't out.
Brought a known working replacement ecu, made no difference.
Checked every wire and connection, all ok.
I'm completely lost with this now theres nothing left I can do

Does anybody have a full wiring diagram for a MY00 uk 2000 turbo and would be kind enough to email me it or give a link to one online??

Thank you.

Had Duncan @ racedynamix come out and have a look this afternoon but couldn't diagnose the problem. All the sensors are getting the correct readings but isn't sparking. Only time it sparks is when you stop turning it over then it gives a large spark like a build up of charge from turning it over and as soon as you stop it releases it.
Duncan thought I may have a crushed wire under the inlet so when he left I had the inlet off and Thoroughly inspected the engine loom which is all fine. Checked all earths and they are all good, I have even added some extra earths direct to the battery as I thought the painted inlet manifold could be causing problems.

Anybody have anymore possibilities of diagnosis?

All help massively appreciated!

sounds like a challange

Sounds like, as per earlier suggestion, you need an oscilloscope to check the sensors and ignition drive outputs, unless Duncan already did this?

My thoughts would still be damaged wiring.

Drop me a PM with your email address and I can help with a wiring diagram.