New age bottom end, how much power?
 

Hi all,
After having multiple problems with my 96 STI fully forged CDB running mid 400s on 20% Meth, I'm now thinking instead of spending thousands of pounds on multiple engine rebuilds I'd be better off just buying second hand new age bottom ends & when they blow up just get another one. At the rate I'm going through rebuilds it's got to be a cheaper way, but will my V 3 STI heads fit straight on, & will it take about 450 BHP.
Thanks Richard.

Yes and yes

Not a bad plan imo!

Hi

Just read your thread, interested why you are having probs. You will have difference in comp ratio depending on which new age block you go for and best example will be semi closed deck.

Yet you are running a CDB at mo, like to know whats failing?

If you need any advice feel free to contact me.

Cheers


Primeiro Motorsport

yes your heads will bolt straight on and the newage sti block can handle 450 all day long if mapped correctly of course,

scott...

just buy a 2.35 and be done with it.

With a newage bottom end and sti 3 heads combo, I made 522.5 :)

Thanks guys, how much will a new age bottom end cost & which one should I look for? My attempt at doing it right once with a CDB & fully forged internals has resulted in wasting thousands on engine builders fees & multiple mapping sessions. I can fit a bottom end myself & get my mapper to tweak it for any compression variations & when it goes pop just get another. After going through 3 engines in 3 thousand miles I'm broke & this plan sounds like a cheaper option. Can I use a 2.5 or will it have to be a 2L? Any advice from those who've done this will be appreciated.

Banny, this sounds good. What turbo did you use, which bottom end was it,who mapped it & how long did it last?
Thanks, Richard.

Rich J

Something is wrong here, 3 engines in 3 thou miles!!!!

With a CDB and quality internals it should be built once and thats what you should be running still. With the V3 heads your setup is bang on for a quality, peforming, strong setup.

I understand where you are coming from regarding bottom end but seriously something is seriously wrong the fact your 1st engine failed let alone another 2.

1st what failed 1st time? and so on?

Cheers

Stephen

get a newage sti 2 liter bottom end from 2001 onwards sti, do not get a 2.5 unless you are staying under 380 they just don't like it. We sell sti short motors @ £950 as a guide for you, but as above i would definitely find out the cause of your current engine going pop so many times as cbd forged internals should be built proof mid 400's

scott...

i'm thinking about doing the same with my engine. Instead of a rebuild I'm planing on buying a new age bottom end. Save me money and time.

Richard it was on rotated GT3076 with a 0.82 exhaust housing, the bottom end was from an 04 plate uk newage, mapped by simon (jgm) on a syvecs with 15% meth and it lasted about 12k miles before I broke the car for bits :)

Thanks Primeiro,
The failures were all different. It all started a few years ago with HG failure, I rebuilt it myself & drove it really hard for about 3 years with no problems, but the piston slap developed to quite a bad level so I decided time to rebuild & up the power.
I bought a CDB Manley rods Mahle pistons ARP studs RCM 400 RCM oil pump sump baffle & a load of other bits. It was assembled by a known engine builder & I put my heads on it & fitted it. Ran it in got it mapped & made 407 at ScoobyClinic. It ran great but after a further mapping session for Meth it blew the headgaskets. I approached the engine builder for help & he refused to look at it even though I bought all the parts off him & gave him thousands.
I sent the engine to another builder who found multiple faults with the original build & ended up doing a full build again Inc new shells & rebuilding the heads. After this engine was fitted it went for a map tweak, but never performed as well as before, I was going to have it
on the rollers again to prove the power was down when it started blowing blue smoke on lift off. If youv read my other thread you'll know it's hot a serious piston problem & is close to a total failure. Iv canceled my track day plans for the summer now & don't plan on any more expensive builds, looking for a budget way to 450 BHP.

I'm also running a 2005 sti short motor with sti version 3 cylinder heads and mine is making 420bhp at the moment at 1.6 bar. We are hoping to push that a little further with more boost.

Banny, did the engine fail, & how much abuse did it handle eg track days etc. Thanks, Richard.

Hi guys sorry to hijack, i read that alot of you use v3 heads, i am currently running a stock motor running usual bolt on mods, exhaust, filter, map etc in my uk sti blobeye, would v3 heads better suit my motor and why? What is the advantage of them?

Cheers

Craig

I think the V3 STI heads are for fitting the bottom end in a classic so the classic inlet manifold can be used to keep it simple. The V3 STI heads are reputed to be the best ones to have though.

name and shame who was the engine builders people need to know

This is correct and for a classic they also have aggressive cams. They will only fit a version 1 to 4 inlet manifold though.

Craig - yours is fine as is, it's running Avcs! Not really V3heads compatable without serious expense changes. Plus Avcs has its bonuses ;)

Banny rang good power for a long time, and ultimately the end was nigh hence the current "Banny" build lol

Rob

Cheers Richard & Rob all i needed to know nice and easily explained :thumb:

Banny, was the bottom end a standard used one or were any parts replaced atall. I'm really thinking about going down this route now & 12k is way more than my forged CDB has ever managed. Thanks.

Richard, Banny doesn't come on here often anymore, but he's more active on 22B if you need more questions.

I'm pretty sure Banny was running a completely standard block.

There are plenty newage 2001> 2.0L STI engines running well over 400bhp with similar torque. Most that see the 4##bhp are just into the 400's, but some are running around 450bhp without issues. Then there is the exception on some running close to 500bhp eeek!

My jdm bug is around 450. Completely standard engine.

Standard used one right down to the subaru head bots, still handled 2 bar no problem. did not really do much track work but it got death whenever it was driven as a certain M5 driver found out lol

Sorry to jump in chaps but After reading through this I'm now confused (not hard)
I was under the impression a cdb or semi was the block to have
And well built you had a block for life
By the sound of it the block choice seems unimportant
It can only be down to quality of the internals and build quality because folks are using different blocks with.various results
Also every other thread is engine rebuild
I can't remember cossies at 350/400 breaking with such regularity
So its starting to lead me to the conclusion that either scooby motors are pants or theres a hell of a lot of so called scooby specialists (or so called) out there having our pants down

It's very rare to hear of a reputable build going wrong, so I say it cheap build, or inferior main parts, or badly built motors that fail.

It's the same for any vehicle, not just Subaru

Rob

I think this is the problem here Richard. Yes there are many newage engines running well over 400bhp on standard internals(i also done it myself) but how many are proven with trackdays thrown in?

There is a big difference to squirting the throttle every now and then to running the stock engine under high loads for long periods of time....Like on trackdays.
Im pretty sure ScoobyClinic posted up somewhere that they thought they had found the limit of the V9 rods on a track/race car.....At 450bhp they bent one!

For me its a no brainer...........For track use it has to be forged!

[QUOTE=Rob Day;10688487]It's very rare to hear of a reputable build going wrong, so I say it cheap build, or inferior main parts, or badly built motors that fail.

It's the same for any vehicle, not just Subaru

Rob[/

Many moons ago there were a handfull of tuners in the country who you could trust to built a nice motor , I guess this still applies
The order of the day seems folks stick the name specialist after there company name and think that's it
Also been thinking , we didn't see such a large amount of cheaper parts (far east ect) you only used to be able to get high end named rods /pistons and such
So could this be another issue
So is there a proven better choice of block or don't it matter

I've got to agree with that Jay, makes perfect sense ;)