Home cinema system help needed
 

Hi,

As a complete newbie when it comes to home cinema/surround sound i fancy something easy to use and set up to go with my tv.

My tv is a panasonic TX32LZD80 with 1 x digital audio out (unused), 3 x HDMI slots 2 used 1 unused, spare AV slot, audio out L+R, component slots marked up as audio in L+R and 3 more round ports marked as Y,Pb,Pr, plus on side of tv an SV socket and pound ports marked as V,L,R and AV3,
of the 2 hdmi sockets one is used with a bushhd freesat box which i use to get my tv programmes through. This bush freesat box has an HDMI connection , SPDIF, LNB in, LNB out, 2 scart sockets (vcr,tv), RS232 sockets.

Now first of all im no film junky i watch mostly just normal tv as in soaps etc or some films on tv and also the occasional film that has been got from the net but isn't dvd size but about 700mb size so compressed from a dvd.These films are watched via a sumvision cyclone micro media player which plus into an HDMI port on TV.

I dont think from that i need a top quality set up so for my use as most of what i watch is not recorded in 5.1 surround sound im guessing.

Been browsing on ebay at second hand units and would a unit like this be good for me Panasonic PT460 DVD 5.1 Home Cinema Theater Premium Surround Sound System iPod (5025232477722) | eBay

Also one more question-how does a unit like this connect up, via hdmi or optical connections on tv or freesat box and would the films played via the micro media player still work ok? and does it make much of a difference to the sound when watching bog standard tv like emmerdale etc?

many thanks

oh i do already have a dvd player (not blueray) but rarely watch dvds.

i always prefer a separate system, these all in on jobbies in my eyes are a waste of time imo.

go for a entry level onkyo 5.1 amp and speakers and it will be a lot better than the all in one kits

what sort of connections do i need to look out for so i can get the sound out when either watching normal tv and those times when the media player is being used to watch a film?

i would get a av amplifer with hdmi inputs, connect the media player to the av amp then hdmi to the tv, the tv 'should' have a optical out which you can also connect to the av amplifier

do i need this sort of set up tho for the type of tv i watch-as most of my tv is soaps etc so that wont be in 5.1 anyway-will a cheap set of stereo speakers do for me to improve on the current sound just from the tv in built speakers?

i reckon a soundbar will be a significant improvement. what's your budget?

I had all in one systems for many years, however a couple of years ago I went for seperates and the difference is massive.

not necessarily if your budget is 500 quid.

Completely agree, best setup you can get for little money and the flexibility is huge in terms of connections and sound quality etc.

Also, BUSH freesat = NO! Spend an extra fiver and go for a Goodmans/Grundig at least, the Bush are notoriously unreliable.

So is the cost ;)

Much as I'd have loved to go the separates route for my current set-up I just couldn't justify the cost and I needed something with compact speakers.

In the end I plumped for this http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...276/index.html Very good product for not much cash. So if I were the OP i'd be looking for something similar but perhaps a bit older and/or second hand.

It has 2xHDMI in that can be used in a pass through mode when required. It's sufficient for now - Freeview box plugs into one, games console in the other, but admittedly an AV amp would give you a lot more connectivity for expansion. :)

have already got the bush freesat boxes and have had for 2 years now and in that time been faultless-so i cant complain tbh

well as for budget well...since as i have said most of my tv watching is soaps then i cant justify spending hundreds on a system-second hand looks good and if i could get a decentish second hand unit of ebay for £60 to £80ish quid i be happy-i know you lot are gonna start laughing now :razz: but even at that price it must be better then just normal tv speakers-will i tho at that price get one that will have all the right connectors for my tv, freesat and media player tho?

I think I might have to have a little rant here about all-in-one systems, but first things first. I think I need to lay out some ground issues that affect the majority of all-in-one home cinemas systems.....If one finds it acceptable, fine, but I still think its still worthy of knowing:

Unless you buy the excruciatingly expensive ones; Acoustically, many all-in-one home cinema systems including the Panasonic home cinemas system are rubbish, so are the majority of LG, Samsung etc.

Why?

Firstly, the speakers are rubbish, despite looking pretty. This is pretty much the case with every sub £500 surround system. And when I mean rubbish, I mean dire; an ultra low point in Hi-Fi IMO

If you look closely they are often tiny drivers in a cheap chipboard or plastic box. Due to the enclosure and driver size, the frequency range and enclosure resonance makes its low frequency response very limited, making them highly dependant on the subwoofer for all low tones (the subwoofer should NOT produce all the bass, it should be for sub-bass, hence its name ;) ). To add insult the majority of all in one systems don't even have tweeters!! That makes the high-end frequency sound quality no better than what a typical TV currently produces....just with a more bass and surround and stereo separation. One way speakers do not have a place in Hi-Fi unless they are Fostex or Lowther drivers housed in quarter-wave tubes (and even then they can be lacking, depdning on taste - i.e Bose waveguide - these use one way folded tube speaker enclosures, very good, but very pricey).

If you are using this type of all-in-one system to play music through one-way speaker drivers housed in poor enclosures, you really are doing the artist no favours as there is very little fidelity in these speaker systems.

Its annoying because they need not be like this, and people don't seem to realise (especially with iDocks ). Manufacturers can easily produce good full range satellite/ compact speakers for very little extra in cost, but they choose not to.

The second problem is the amplifier:

The amp is a digital type that shares its "1000watts" between each channel and is totally incapable of delivering anything like its rated output to all the channels on a sustained basis. Check out the rating plate on the rear panel, the PT460 claims 1000watt RMS combined amp output (or 125watts x4 plus 250watts for the centre and 250 watts for the passive subwoofer) with all channels driven.....yet it only draws 135 watts at the mains plug...work that out! ;).

Basically, the manufacturer is lying about its real-world performance. What is a 125watt RMS per channel amp is actually barely 20watts per channel in the real world. I know this as the heatsink alone for a true 125watt multi-channel amp would be bigger than the receiver unit, even on Class D type amplifiers. As electrically it is quite difficult to achieve high power DC outputs from a 240volt 50hz AC mains supply whilst staying within a low budget and small package (this is partly why car amps are much more powerful as they operate from a pure DC source which can instantly deliver current, as opposed AC mains where current flow is restricted 50 times in every second).


Thirdly, connectivity. The Panasonic is no exception to this, as with many all in one system, it has limited connectivity...it has only one HDMI connector, and from experience with other similar models, getting it to throughput audio from an analogue source can be 'fun'. The ARC via HDMi on the TV won't work, so you need to run a set of phono or scart leads to it if you want to use anything analogue (usually this is an issue with the TV). Even weirder though is what some Panasonic models do this when through-putting from an optical source....

I don't know if this Panasonic model does it, but I've come across other Panasonic models which when taking an optical source from a set-top box, it wouldn't play any audio unless it had a video signal via the scart. At first you'd think 'ahh, its just getting the audio through the scart', nope, its set on optical input and when unplugging the optical lead, the audio would stop. The very same would happen when disconnecting the scart...whilst listening to an optical input, utterly bizarre (I know it makes no sense to me either ).


But if you get it for under £100. Go for it. But bear in mind it won't play Blu-Rays and most soaps aren't 5.1 surround. Just don't go blowing a wad of cash on a unit with one-way speakers, unless you have crap hearing :)

With regards to soaps and 5.1 surround audio, if all you watch is soaps, its likely to be only PCM two channel with pro-logic (simulated surround). Or on a HD source watching a HD channel you may get Dolby 2.0 which is better, but you'll only get full 5.1 on films or on those mini-drama series/documentaries (i.e. frozen planet) where they've bothered to encode a rear/centre channel soundtracks.


Its because of all the above I ended up blowing a huge wad of cash on an Onkyo SR608 and Tannoy HTS speakers. Its still not perfect (Tannoys too small for proper full range and Onkyo is a bit glitchy/clunky to use ). But at least the TV now sounds half good. I wouldn't hesitate on recommending Onkyo, their network receivers are well worth looking at, just note their speaker packages can be lacking. Of course we are talking a lot more money here though.

Sure

But it wont be of great quality at £500, and its false economy in my opinion.

When I purchased separate home cinema kit, it was approx £1200 before discount.

looks like OP wants to spend around 80 notes. I'd look for a SONY cubes style 5.1 for that price.

http://www.soundandvision.co.uk/hifi...iver_amplifier 7.1 4xHDMI (inc 1.4a for 3D)

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-kht1005-2-blk Need to add another pair for 7.1

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...0/tosh-bdx1200 Can easily be made multi-region for BOTH BD and DVD.

over budget much? ;)

I thought this too, but bought one and was completely underwhelmed and took it back.

I bought a 2.1 all in one and it was much better, so separates will be an order of magnitude better I would have thought.

Geezer

ALi-B....that must have taken bl00dy ages to type out :D

It all depends what people want really. I used to have a panasonic surround sound dvd player and I loved it...the sound on dvd`s (to me was awesome). Since changing my living room around I don`t want wires everywhere so I`ve gone for a soundbar (old dvd player isn`t compatible so I`m now after a Blu Ray player, lol). Obviously it`s not gonna be as good as a surround sound set up or the ideal seperates set up but for my size of room and my budget it`ll be grand....if I ever decide what to buy and actually get it set up :lol1:

Yamaha soundbars sound good....not cheap though. Although some of the lower end models are in teh £200 bracket now but Ive not had the chance to hear them.

Samsung sound bars have the same problem as their surround kits....poxy plastic and tiny dire-yet-pretty speaker cones no bigger than what is already inside the TV (seriously those disc-shaped cones on Samsung A/V systems do sound awful ). Seiously there is no point in getting a sound bar with 2" speakers unless its a array design (i.e 6 or more drivers) or has some very clever cabinet deisgn (folded tube).

LOL, I do type quickly when typing from the top of my head :D (the paint has worn off the key tops of my keyboard after just 18months of use :eek: ). It took longer to edit the more obvious mistakes (dyslexia :rolleyes: - So I will still miss plenty of errors, but it'll do ) :o

I think the whole issue with home cinema/surround stems from us going backwards in audio quality when we all switched to flat panel TVs. Whereas back in the day a £1000 TV would get you a pretty damn good sounding CRT TV with 5.1 and sub built in, the same money now gets you a TV with the sound fidelity that can be outdone by a tannoy system on a train platform. Stereo imaging (or pseudo surround) is now also none existant due to manufacturers pointing the speakers downwards away from the listener, as opposed to forward facing to allow for a slimmer bezel design.

So what that means is alot of home systems is an improvment over a flat panel's internal speakers: The fact the speakers point at the listener is a start. Also housed in a sealed or ported enclosure give a more solid sound and deeper vocals as opposed to a basic dipole (where sound from the rear of the speaker can cancels out what is produced by the front making them sound tinny and hollow).

So even a surround system using one-way plastic cabinet speakers, subwoofer and a 15watt per channel amp (real world watts ;) ) will sound much much better than the average TV. But its not Hifi, good enough for watching soaps though, I suppose. What annoys me though is if manufacturers just spent a few extra quid in manufacturing, and less on rolling out new models every year, these systems would sound much much better for it. Especially when some of these very pretty systems can cost over £500! I can forgive an all in one system costing less than £200, but what is being marketed at the moment is shocking, almost as bad as some of the blinkered reviews that accompany them (paranoia mode...are they paid to give raving reviews, or just deaf? :Suspiciou ).

Thanks for that detailed reply ali-b-i fully understand where you are coming from with regards to quality/price with all in one systems but tbh i dont wanna go stupid with cost and feel just a nice second hand system that looks nice and makes the sound come from all around is gonna be a massive improvement over the bog standard tv speakers.

I bought a Sony STR series AV amp for £50 off ebay and added a JBL active sub and speaker kit for £80, all 2nd hand. That will out perform any all-in-one all day long in terms of connections, sound quality and capability.

You can build a superb system for under £200 easily

This is an absolute bargain

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-surro...#ht_500wt_1284

only problem i can quickly see with that system is the colour-my tv is black with black stand etc-that system is silver-cant read much of rest of ad cos of daft size font seller has used-my eyesight aint that good :lol1:

What are you going to get for that price! My mates always wonder how my custom speaker setup with two Rel q200e subs sounds fantastic and thier £100 setup doesn't! Beats me eh!

yeh i understand that-but hey horses for courses-most time it only be watching emmerdale or corry etc :)

I only put my home cinema on for Blueray movies or Xbox/PS3 games and then I feel sorry for the nieghbours :D There is no point on using a proper setup without DD/DTS/THX :D

Are you saying that there is no point with a home cinema system if 99% of tv watching is soaps etc

I tried my system through Sky for a couple of days (a while ago), then when I put a dvd on it wasn`t as `special` as it used to be cos I was watching everything with surround sound. Personally I think it`s more of a `treat` when I watch a dvd with good sound, for me my tv speakers are more than ample for everyday tv. If you don`t watch many dvds and just watch mainly tv then it`s up to you :thumb:

which is basically the main reason i dont wanna spend lots on a system but just a cheapish system second hand of ebay. As long as it all connects up so all my bits work together etc and it sounds goodish i be happy