Im was worryin moi sheep...
 

Wife took the Dog to Styal woods near Manchester for a walk, the park is National trust and borders farmers fields, there is a sign in bright red paint (like blood apparently) saying that any dogs that go in the field WILL be shot, my wife said there is a notice asking for a witness to an incident involving the farmer to come forward, it seems either someone was assaulted by the farmer or their Dog was shot, apparently this incident was in front of someone's young kids.

Now this is a National Trust place and the fields that border it just have a barbed wire fence under which any Dog with a mind to can get through if the mood takes it, surely it would be simple for a farmer worried about his sheep to block the bits where a dog could get through, and a sign telling you your Dog will be shot is not exactly polite is it, perhaps please keep your Dog under control as there is livestock in the field might be less aggressive, its next to a place where people routinely take Dogs, not in the wilds, sounds to me lie some arsey farmer who fancies killing some Dogs, almost entrapment if the fence isn't enough to keep them out.

Basically means we cant walk ours there as despite trying to train him, one whiff of animals and he is off, just to have a look as he isn't aggressive and I dont think a Yorkshire Terrier/Poodle hybrid is going to kill a sheep but I think farmer Piles would just shoot him anyway, I dont think really that farmers should really be issuing gun threats, even if they have had sheep "worried", just seems to me like a potential nutjob with a shotgun.

How many sheep actually die from dogs worrying them, is it a big problem, do they just keel over or is it being hunted by unattended/roaming dogs rather than someone's Labrador giving chase ?

Basically the farmer can shoot the dog IF it's worrying the livestock. See here .... http://www.policespecials.com/forum/...howtopic=98344 ...

Yes you'd think the farmer should put up more of a fence but then dogs can and do get over most anyway. And it's actually you who are responsible for the dog, it's not the farmer.

Dave

bloody ell thats worrying,
i know exactly where you mean, that walk towards the runway where it go's really steep.

bever actually seen any sheep in there, if he started thretening me, he would get one stuck on him regardless of whether he had a gun or not

I think they have to have exhausted other alternatives, what worries me is that this is a farmer that just fancies killing peoples pets and will use the law as his reason, I can understand if its sustained and regular but someone's dog slipping through a fence to have a look is not I think grounds to kill it, if the owners are nearby then really they shouldn't be shooting, not near a public right of way as if he tries to pop the dog and hits the owners as it scuttles out then that is a lot of trouble.

When i was in my teens there was a popular circular walk along the edge of the creek along a seawall and then back around the edge of a ,largley, disused brickworks . Inside of the seawall about 30 feet was wire fence and sheep all the way back to the brickworks path.
Well it mus been a problem for this farmer cos he nailed up a mauled carcass to a post with words the effect ' keep your dogs under control or they will be shot'

Just so you can see both sides of the story, livestock worrying is a big problem, even if your dog is just inquisitive and playful, the sheep don't know that.
It's not just the attacking of livestock that is a problem, disturbing their grazing can lead to problems, any disturbance to pregnant animals can be very distressful causing the loss of lambs and worrying can also cause separation of lambs and mothers. All these problems can and often do lead to dead livestock.
I would imagine the farmer has had a lot of problems with ignorant dog owners (not saying you are one :) ) and has lost alot of livestock in the past, hence the slightly impolite notice. I think you'll find he's not actually an arsey farmer gun nut but someone trying in vain to look after his livelihood.
Hope this helps to clear things up a bit.

We keep sheep. They are securely fenced (4' high stock fencing). I have had our sheep and ponies attacked and injured by a dog whose owner let it get free and got under one of our paddock gates :mad:

The onus is on the dog owner to keep the dog under control.

Regarding shooting a dog, this is controlled by the Animals Act 1971.

9 Killing of or injury to dogs worrying livestock.E+W(1)In any civil proceedings against a person (in this section referred to as the defendant) for killing or causing injury to a dog it shall be a defence to prove—
(a)that the defendant acted for the protection of any livestock and was a person entitled to act for the protection of that livestock; and
(b)that within forty-eight hours of the killing or injury notice thereof was given by the defendant to the officer in charge of a police station.
(2)For the purposes of this section a person is entitled to act for the protection of any livestock if, and only if—
(a)the livestock or the land on which it is belongs to him or to any person under whose express or implied authority he is acting; and
(b)the circumstances are not such that liability for killing or causing injury to the livestock would be excluded by section 5(4) of this Act.
(3)Subject to subsection (4) of this section, a person killing or causing injury to a dog shall be deemed for the purposes of this section to act for the protection of any livestock if, and only if, either—
(a)the dog is worrying or is about to worry the livestock and there are no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or
(b)the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity and is not under the control of any person and there are no practicable means of ascertaining to whom it belongs.
(4)For the purposes of this section the condition stated in either of the paragraphs of the preceding subsection shall be deemed to have been satisfied if the defendant believed that it was satisfied and had reasonable ground for that belief.
(5)For the purposes of this section—
(a)an animal belongs to any person if he owns it or has it in his possession; and
(b)land belongs to any person if he is the occupier thereof.

The trouble with dogs near sheep is that sheep are easy scared,and if a dog runs around them meaning no harm the sheep can get spooked easy,this is a problem over the road from us,where a public footpath runs up the side of the field.The farmer says that dog worms are a problem too as when the dogs c**p in the field sheep are grazing on the same ground,and he reckons the worming that covers his sheep dont kill dog worms.So i keep my hound well away just to be safe. :)

Farmers do get very annoyed when they get dogs worrying their animals and that is why he will have put up that notice. He must have had bad problems with dogs in the past.

It is down to the dog owner to stop their animal going onto the farmer's land. The farmer just needs to keep his sheep on his own land.

I doubt that he really wants to shoot peoples' pets, he will be sensitive to animals of all sorts, but he won't be happy if he has a dog worrying his sheep and that is quite reasonable when you think about it.

I think the answer is that if you are near his land than you have to keep your dog under control.

Les

Les, true and we do keep him under control and will avoid that vicinity but yesterday my wife had to catch him to avoid him geting into the field, apparently the sign was really quite agressive and the fact that someone had already had a problem seemed to underline this, whether or not a Dog was shot or some other altercation occured I dont know but I do think the opportunities for Dogs to get through should be minimised if the farmer wants to avoid his sheep being worried as once a Dog is through it is too late and it is an area where people let their Dogs off to run.

I can see it from the point of view of farmers as it is afterall their liveleyhood and I can imagine that a lot of Dog owners dont give a toss and I see it myself with the freshly wrapped turds in bags hung on fences and just left on the floor but I would hope that they would avoid shooting any dog that has wandered into the field by default and actually check if there is someone nearby trying to retreive it, my wife said the Dog would have got through, but she would have had to go some distance to get into the field.

I think its an outside possibility but a real one so I guess its just a case of watching the little bugger like a Hawk and scan for any livestock nearby.

Somebody just said that Sheep can just keel over and die due to fright, is that true, I can understand some disruption or distress but dying, they cant be that crap can they, how do they survive harrassment by a Border Collie ?

Sheep wont just keel over and die, like you say, they'd have to be pretty crap for that :lol1: However, distress and disruption especially in lambing season can be fatal.
Watching a good shepherd and dog at work is a joy to see, the collies dont harass the sheep, they "persuade" them to go where they want in a very precise and controlled manner. Totally different to a non working dog bounding through the flock and chasing whoever runs.

Yes I agree with the points you are making J4CKO, and I can understand how that sign must have been frightening to your wife especially as it would have been difficult for her to get into the field to catch him.

I also expect that the farmer has had problems with dogs worrying his animals in the past so that must have coloured his attitude when making the sign.

As far as securing the field is concerned, he won't want to spend any more than he has to so that his sheep wont escape and the notice is a cheaper way of discouraging dogs from getting into the field.

Its a difficult problem from either side of course. I know that the farmers around here would shoot a dog which was worrying their animals as it seems they are entitled to do.

I would also expect that the farmer would not shoot a dog in the field out of hand, but only if it was attacking his animals.

Les

In my experience of farmers, this couldn't be further from the truth. Farmers care about one thing where livestock is concerned and that is the money they generate. I reckon an animal lover would struggle to be a farmer if he/she wanted to make it their living.

They are well within their rights to shoot a dog too, and will be protected by law, as it be pretty much a given there won't be any witnesses to whether or not a dog is actually causing a nuisance.

One of my dogs escaped 15 years ago underneath a 6 foot fence buried a foot or more underground, between hedging, that surrounds my grounds. We check the perimeter regularly for holes made by rabbits etc, as the dogs can roam freely over the land whenever they wish to. Any damage is repaired at the same time it is found.

However, one morning a dog had escaped through a tiny hole that had been made in the chainlink, (I later learned), by a digger driver the day before digging a trench for the last bit of fencing to be buried!

I immediately rang the 6 or so farmers locally. Every one of them, without fail, sounded totally uninterested that I was informing them it could possibly be my dog in their field if they saw one, and that I'd be there immediately to retrieve it if they called me. One farmer actually said he couldn't be bothered with contacting me and that he'd shoot my dog on sight anyway. That wasn't the reply I wanted to hear when I was driving about the villages looking.

I never did get my dog back and can't help thinking he was shot. It was an eye opener at the time that every farmer I contacted was as dismissive as they could have been. I'd also imagine it was equally an eye opener for the farmer who said he'd shoot my dog on sight, but that is another story....

What happens if you have a nervous Dog and a Sheep gets into your garden and intimidates it ?

What if you have not got a Dog and have to worry the Sheep yourself ?

What do Farmers do if their own Dog worries the Sheep, now there is a Dilemma.

Are you basing your opinion solely on the fact that your dog went missing 15 years ago and none of the local farmers cared?
You couldn't be further from the truth, as in any walk of life you will get some people who don't care but the vast majority of farmers are very caring and compassionate about animals and animal welfare. That is a fact, not an opinion.
I work on a farm when I'm not offshore, my wife has been a farmer all her life, she also works as a farm inspector for the government, checking animal welfare is a big part of her job. We are both animal lovers as are all our friends and neighbours and none of us struggle with farming.

You're entitled to your opinion but it certainly isn't fact, fact.

Id say shoot the sheep,and Get the mrs to worry them ,and shoot the dog.

Well it's certainly a more informed opinion that the bollocks you're spouting.

Thats a bit harsh john :( kill all sheep and farmer feed the dog job done.

To be fair although farmers can shoot your dog a lot of the threats are just to try to scare dog owners into showing some responsibility,because although most are responsible there are some that dont give a toss.At the end of the day its there livelihood.I know one farmer that watched a dog run from its owner across his field and pin a ewe down,he didnt get he gun out but what really pi55ed him of was when she put the lead back on it and then walked straight past him and denied it had happened.The next day he put electric fence up to separate the path from the field,and within in week had a visit from the council saying they had received a complaint about the fencer.I had a dog a few years ago that would run among the sheep opposite me and the farmer let me put it in a barn with a ram,needless to say he never bothered them again.However i also know of a trigger happy farmer who will shoot readily i guess its luck of the draw.:) :(

Good point plus you get plenty of free meat win win :lol1:

Yours is personal, you're hardly going to say otherwise. :rolleyes:

Would you shoot and kill a dog on your land ?

I'd expect Mr Farmer to be more concerned about Mr Fox, how many dogs are we aware of that have carried off a lamb :wonder:.

More worringly is that there is such a beast as a Yorkie/Poodle Hybrid ;)

So many images spring to mind :D

This one for instance :lol1:

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/849413_f520.jpg

:lol::lol1:

Anyone who cannot control their dog should:-

a. Have the animal taken from them, or if not ....

b. Be made to keep it on a lead at ALL times

c. Keep it muzzled

d. Be fined a 'nuisance' tax of £10 a day until they see sense and either give up the dog - or, get responsible, and train it properly!

Removing an unsuitable owner from the animal would be the best course of action .... the Farmer is well within his rights to dispatch the dog of such an irresponsible owner - end of.

Anyone like you who is allowed to post on here should be put down lewis :)

I live in the middle of a few farmers, I know most of them and they all say that they would not actually shoot a dog in their fields unless they were forced to in order to protect their animals from harm because the dog was actively worrying the beasts. They say that they would hate to be forced to do that.

Les