Police Harassment
 

Well somewhat to my surprise i have to feel sorry for the cops involved in this Moat business. Now they are subject to a close scrutiny about his final capture and death. Did they say the right things, why were tasers used etc etc?

I wouldn't want to go USA style but if it had been over there the guy would have been dead in two minutes riddled with police bullets. Job done.

I am sure the cops made more than a few mistakes along the way but I think the whole thing was slightly OTT what with bloody jet fighters buzzing about. And that woman Chief Constable looks traffic warden material to me.

The unanswered question is why was he let out of gaol early if it was known that he was a threat to his ex.

So do you think it is all a bit too PC now?

dl

Lessons have to be learned (groan).

what I find slightly odd is the level of media/public (one can argue the toss about which come first) interest on this one -- relative to the David Beiber case a few years ago

who shot two coppers (killed one) in cold blood in leeds -- after a routine traffic stop - then went on the run

maybe because it is so soon after the Bird bloke went postal

I hear that he shot himself because the taser attack caused him to involuntarily pull the trigger of his own gun.

He was certainly a deeply disturbed person to get into that whole situation.

Les

Man was a killer, he met a fitting end. Thats that.
If you dont want to find yourself lying in a field with firearms officers tasering you and a shotgun pointed at your neck then dont go on a killing spree.....Simples.

Agree

I guess that is fairly sound advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAPTOR

amazing piece of kit

Totally agree with this. I knew this would happen with a back lash to the Police. Like already stated im sure mistakes will have been made and lessons will be learnt. But really how massive was this?
How much has this man cost the country?

I am not privy to know if he shot himself due to being tazared, but if he did so what. Using tazars the officers where using far from lethal force, after all they could ahve just shot him.

What has made me laugh is the media, i read a paper this morning that actually quoted him as a gentle giant. It just makes me laugh but saddens me too what the media can be like.

Yes the Police up there took a week to find him but you know what, no one else was killed (apart from MOAT that is).

If you ask me, well done to the Police up there.

I'll reserve judgement on the Police who were on the ground on all levels, that is, the time it took to locate him and their actions afterwards. Tough job and I wouldn't want it.

However what I would say, and I agree with Moat's brother is this; The media manipulated this into a circus. Yes the man was dangerous, yes he needed apprehended, but we didn't need a Fox Media 'Washington Sniper' type manhunt that incited all that it did.

Yeah. One taking steroids and anti-depressants .... :Suspiciou Not that they will be mentioned much when the *authorities learn the lessons* ....

Dave

fitting end. Just a shame it took some much time and money.

God only knows what the steroids did to him, or the interaction between them and the anti-depressants, however many people have to take anti-depressants, it doesn't make them gun wielding maniacs, or even bad people :thumb:

If the police had reacted as they should have done in the first place when Durham Gaol warned them about his state of mind as they were informed by a fellow prisoner after his release, then all this could have been prevented.

Les

Les I promise you, as a solicitor, Everyday we get people released from Prison for violent crimes saying that they are going to go and kill people.
I would estimate this month I have dealt with 8 people that have got out and claimed they will go on a killing spree.
If everyone that claimed this was sectioned or arrested for threats to kill we would need to double the police and prisons at least!!!

You can never tell if someones threats are serious much the same as you can never tell if the lonely looking man in the office is one day going to snap.

Sad case, in all aspects. I understand Moat's brother's sentiments and I really think it is time that the role of media in this kind of situation is reviewed. It did become (IMO) a manhunt with the media wanting a kill, at least metaphorically; surely their presence can only hinder the Police? How long before we see live footage of the likes of Moat killing himself? Slippery slope.

Also agree with Timwinner's response re why didn't people do something to prevent this, following his threats (hindsight..............). Don't think the legal system caters for this - would be good to see your view here Tim: just what could be done, short of keeping him locked up? Is this possible, on the basis of threat, within the current framework? Big can of worms I guess. I do however think that there should be a mechanism in place whereby some kind of risk assessment is made (maybe there is?). Even in this case what do you do, assign Police monitoring 24/7? At the end of the day there will always be an element of risk.

Would be interesting to hear the views of our resident officers on this case re media and what preventitive action could reasonably have been taken (and its likely effectiveness).

dnc

I had to laugh at the awesomeness that is BBC News when they interviewed a women who had never met Moat before but described him as a 'gentle giant'! I actually couldn't believe it.

The man shot a police officer in the face, he didn't deserve to be brought in. He deserved to be shot on sight! If it was up to me these idiots leaving RiP messages and flowers at his place of death would be told to wind their neck in and look and the carnage he caused, I haven't seen any civilians giving flowers over the officer who will now be blinded for life doing a duty for us!

The prison authorities had information from a fellow prisoner which one would expect to be significant and also they would have known the man's state of mind of course.

Since the police are contracted to protect the public they could have at the very least informed the woman and man concerned that they had been threatened. It would only take a 'phone call!

Are you saying it just was not worth the trouble and look at the resulting saga involved in tracking him down not to mention the injuries and death of that man? Is that a risk worth taking just for the sake of convenience?

Les

Les,

How do you know that the woman wasn't warned? We don't know what she was or wasn't told. The police cannot be blamed for not warning her new partner, because as I understand it, the information that they received related to her alone.

Everyone is giving opinions on this without knowing the full facts. But like Tim, I promise you that the police will receive information about things like this on a daily basis....often numerous times a day. They cannot possibly be expected to give round the clock protection to everyone!

Threats to kill are an arrestable offence but there is and never will be a way to work out how serious these threats are.
In my years in the job I do I have known people that have never been in trouble with the police, sent one text message with threatening undertones and a week later attack the same person with a pick axe handle.
Likewise I have known people released from prison who sent threats, serious sounding ones to loads of people and a year later are married with a kid on the way and a full time job.

We have to expect people that come out of prison are sometimes angry, taking someones liberty away is a serious business and not everyone can deal with it in a rational way, but we also have to believe in rehabilitation, that means people will come out of prison and give it the big one.

The only real way to make sure it never happens again is to never let anyone out of prison and EVERY threat ever made, even in a road rage when someone might shout a threat, gets locked up for life.
The ex partner of was informed and after the investigation the audit trail will be obvious.

We cant read peoples mind and intent is hard to prove, so things like this will happen again. sad but true.

Spot on

Seems to me that when you have a man who is known to be seriously affected by the steroids he was taking and who was in gaol for a violent offence, and also fellow prisoners told the authorities that he was out to harm his ex girl friend, then some extra effort to ensure the woman was safe was called for.

One only has to think of the £1/4 million annually which Billy Liar can expect to be spent on his protection at the expense of the taxpayer with no contribution from him while he is swanning around overseas earning many thousands on his lecture and public speaking tours!

Les

I understand your frustration but logically its just not workable. Moat was'nt a rare breed, scores and scores of meathead violent offenders come out of prison every day and to give the level of attention that would have been required to make sure Moat never got near his ex for the rest of his life would have been unrealistic.
And if warnings from 3rd parties are to be acted on in similar case then you would need each ex offender to have at least 5 personal police officers.
If a maniac wants to kill someone, some time, some day he will kill them.

Sad but very true. As TW says it is impossible to cater for every threat.

dnc

Spot on.:thumb:
But then there always has to be a scapegoat and the fuzz are always in the firing line.....easy targets.

Anyone who makes a fatal error puts himself in the firing line.

Les