UK Airspace
 

What i can not understand about all this aircraft/volcano business is, ok they perceved the ash generated to be a danger to aircraft.
So why when they decided to open the airports to recieve aircraft at 22.00 on Tuesday evening did they make numerous aircraft circle over the Isle of Man, Ireland, lands end and northern France for 2 hours prior to 22.00? according to the radar (airtraffic live.com).
I the ash was a danger, would it not be a priority to bring the aircraft in as soon as possible rather than have them burning fuel for 2 hours in uk airspace? If not a priority why was UK airspace cosed in the first place:wonder:
Deffinately something funny going on, i smell conspiracy.:Suspiciou

Ash is only a danger if there is enough of it to affect the aircraft. The whole 'no-fly- thing has been because Euro air traffic control relies on Met Office computer simulations of the ash spread (yes, the same met office who spend mi8llions on their global warming forecasts but can't predict the weather a week in advance! At least they've spent millions on the GW models - they've spent about thruppence on the ash models ...). See http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/201...n-masters.html for more info and how it's all down to Euro regulations etc. Funny that the Euro angle is hardly mentioned by the politicians ..... :Suspiciou

Dave

I gather that the technicians have now upped the estimated engine tolerance to the ash ingestion. This has now allowed aircraft to fly again. There is a rumour that this may be due to political pressure.

I hope that they really do have sufficient information to be able to do this and that there are no problems ahead while flying in the ash.

They say that you need not be able to see the ash for there to be sufficient to cause possible troubles with the engines. This would of course be additive as time goes by.

Les

The programme last night about the 747 which lost all its engines due to the ash in the Jakarta area did a good job in demonstrating just why they closed our airspace until they knew more about the actual situation.

Les

Worth a (rather scary) read: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-dreads-.html

Steve

The OP is correct to assume stange goings on, they put the programme on last night to justify their actions in costing business billions.
According to the documentary, the 747 was almost flying over the volcano and was affected heavily by the outfall. This is not the same as we are a lot further away even accounting for it being driven by weather conditions, it would just dissipate. This whole thing is wide open for the conspiracy theorist.

Go see the 'no fly' zones here ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8636308.stm

BIG difference between today and previously. Why? Because somebody actually got off their ar5e and did some real work to figure out if the *cloud* was a threat rather than just relying on a Met Office computer ....!

Dave

By strange goings on, are you saying that closing the airspace was an advantage for the authorities?

All that was known was that there was volcanic dust in our airspace, the density was not known. In view of what is known about the deleterious effects of that dust on jet engines and also what had happened before to that 747, what could the authorities do but err on the side of safety? They had to take a decision before there might have been a disaster. What would you be saying if they had done nothing and a passenger aircraft had crashed?

I think they did exactly the right thing until more was known about the actual situation.

Les

I think you're right Les, but would pick them up on two points.

1. They were slow to get together to formulate a response.
2. The CAA should have communicated what they were doing. It appeared they were doing nothing and waiting for the wind to change, or the volcano to stop.

One big cock up and they tried to explain it away by showing the Jakarta documentary on channel 5 to explain away the whole thing. Like the OP mentioned, they opened the airports at 22.00, so why keep aircraft circling for 2 hours before allowing them to land?
At best the whole episode was one big cock up, at worse there was probably something else going on. I recon this episode is the final nail in the coffin concerning one UK airline, watch this space.

Yes I accept that, but overall I think the right decision was taken.

Les

what hight were the circling at? They could have been above the cloud and waiting for it to disperse before coming in.

Especially with long-haul flights alot left for Heathrow before it opened, knowing it was going to open and may have arrived early and were put in a holding pattern whilst they waited.

But why were they not allowed to land until bang on 22.00? remember, the volcano is in iceland, so any ash would be well dispersed, it's not like Jakarta when the 747 almost flew over the top of a volcano and through the ash. In fact if these aircraft are thay vulnerable they wouldn't be flying full stop.

If they said the airspace would re-open at 2200, maybe they meant it.

Les

But why have numerous aircraft circling over UK airspace for 2 hours until 22.00? You don't hear about the number 6 bus driving around the block for 2 hours before it's allowed in the terminus.

Because if those aircraft are returning pax to their destinations, and aircraft to base, it's better to see if the airspace is declared open, than divert.

It might even be that ATC was not fully geared up to take them until the official openeing of our airspace.

Les