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Hate Rust from UK Roads? You need one of these.....
Just posted this link for some other guys in the forum, but I think I should tell everyone about them.
I had one on my Astra GSi and with no paint over some of the bodywork (stone chips etc) no rust formed....ever!!!! Get one today rather than paying huge bills for bodywork you are never happy with! Read up on them, military use them for underwater piplines and ships etc. Manufactured by HP and another big manufacturer. RustStop Electronic rust protection and rust prevention. Giz a shout if you need any more info! |
Oh just read it now has a 10 year warranty! :)
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Mines came from the land of the rising sun with a similar device fitted. We also use a cathodic protection system at work to protect our ethylene pipe lines.
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So how do you mount these to stop the car rusting? Just bolting it onto the chassis???
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Is there a price. May have missed it as on my phone, so very small text.
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$249 (USD) by the looks of it
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Thats alot of deniro!
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Not reAlly a great deal of money for those of us with older cars. I spent £600 on welding last year on my mini after the bloody salt ruined my rear arches, rear valance and a few other bits that needed patching. No matter how well you look after the little buggers they still rot.
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UK Price is approx £120 quid.
Matt is correct, one lick of paint required will set you back more than this device. Plus you are usually not happy with the quality of work afterwards unless you are paying a Pro top $. This post is really more for classic owners than newage, we are getting to the rust age unfortunately. Plus we have salt on UK roads. This device will allow you to fit and forget about rust, you will regret not fitting it when you see that first bubble! To fit the device, you put two 1mm wide scratchs in your paint on the inside of the car, then fit the annode and cathode. The annode and cathode then have wires connecting them to a control box, which has multiple status lights on it. The control box then links direct to the battery. I had one of these on my Astra GSi and bare metal did no rust..ever. I may become a UK reseller of these if I get enough interest, maybe try and sort a group buy???? |
me me me. probably would buy two if the price is right.
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If one other person says yes then Ill start the process of finding out about group buys and trying to become a UK reseller for all the SN boys. :)
I need another one too. |
Guys, this system is a scam, don't waste your money.
Cathodic protection works by passing an electric current through an electrolyte (soil, water, wet sand etc) and onto the metal surface of whatever you are protecting, to essentially 'reverse' the naturally occurring corrosion currents present in the metal surface (this is a huge oversimplification but serves the purpose of explaining). It is used extensively in the oil and gas industry on buried pipelines, oil rigs, the base of storage tanks, and numerous other buried or immersed steel structures, and it works well. Cathodic protection relies on the steel surface being in direct contact with an electrolyte, otherwise it will not work. Based on the information provided on the website, this device appears to pass an electric current through the car bodywork via a pair of anodes. I can tell you now, as a Cathodic Protection Engineer who designs systems for clients in the oil and gas industry, this system will not work, and it is not used anywhere in the oil and gas industry. If you could prevent corrosion on atmospherically exposed steelwork using this method, believe me, it would be used everywhere. Why do you think that this system doesn't come fitted as standard to your new car straight out of the factory? If it worked, it would be used by all the big car makers. But it isn't. This should tell you something! Save your money and spend it on something useful instead! |
Bang goes that theory then!
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Ben,
I'm not going to argue with your obvious experience in Cathodic protection and bow to your greater knowledge...however I do have a couple of points / questions for you. 1. There is very little rust damage done by a sunny day, hence for this system to work, you are saying that it needs an electrolyte such as water. But surely when it is raining that provides water???? 2. I had this system for well over two years and as stated, bare metal did not even discolour.....can you explain that? 3. If the device was a scam why would big companies such as Hewlet Packard manufacture the equipment? 4. If nobodies car rusted.......manufacturers would be doing themselves out of a hell of a lot of business. 5. Why does more than one company manufacture these devices, are they all scammers? Sorry to 'backchat', but I really 'do/did' believe in this product from previous experience, can you convince me further that it doesn't work? I know you don't have to but I would appreciate it. If it really is a scam Ill put another post up but I have seen it working with my own eyes, including rusting the cathode / annode which ever one it is, and having to replace it due to corrosion. |
Just looked at the website again and they are even accredited by multiple 'fair trade; type organisations.........have you fully read the write up or just dismissed it?
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Ben what you are saying is backed up by their website, the device only really works when it is raining (electrolyte).
But why would you want it working when it is dry? Please convince me because you haven't so far and I will buy another one of these otherwise. Bo |
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Normally I would ignore reviews as they could be made up, but I have just checked any everyone on there is saying exactly what I am...check yourself.
Testimonials for RustStop electronic rust control |
Just to add.......including Oil and Gas industries!
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Well, before I spend time answering further and going into great detail, I have emailed the company to ask for the independant test report, which I would like to read to understand exactly how the system supposedly works, what testing has been done, and the qualifications of the testers.
The testimonials could easily have been made up. The only one that could easily be verified is the one from the car magazine in 1996, if you could find the particular article. Again, I'd like to read the article to see what long term testing the magazine did. This is certainly an interesting discussion, I look forward to responding when / if we have their test results! Based on my knowledge (and the opinion of many engineers who are far more experienced than I am, who have heard of this device and proclaimed it to be a scam) I do not believe that this device will work, and I would need to see reliable test data to change my mind. |
Right, I have been in email (and phone) contact with one of the guys at RustStop (I am currently in America), and so far I have received some 'test results' which were sent to me in the form of a few lines copied and pasted from a text document onto a jpeg image, which could have been written by anybody. When I asked to see the rest of the report to review the test procedure, I was told that they didn't want their competitors stealing their 'trade secrets' (!). I replied stating that I would be happy with a report with all 'trade secrets' removed, and they have strangely gone quiet.
This is not the action of a company confident that their product will work or stand up to independent scrutiny. Most reputable manufacturers of anything have no problem submitting their products for independent testing without giving away 'trade secrets' in the process. And independent testing is a waste of time if the report isn't available for peer review. I suspect that either (a) the test report doesn't exist, or (b) the test procedures carried out were not applicable to the intended use (on a car body). Unless I see it, I'm not believing anything this company says. You cannot protect steel from rusting just by passing a current through it, otherwise impressed current cathodic protection could also be used to protect the above ground sections of pipelines, which it can't. You have to pass current through an electrolyte and onto the surface of the steel, where the electrochemical reaction that causes corrosion is occurring. Based on the installation instructions given on the website, I can also tell you why the 'rust magnets' corrode. Note how the website stresses that the anodes should be installed in locations where rain water is guaranteed to flow over them. This is to make sure they rust in the rain and give the impression that they are working. In fact, when it rains the water will create a high resistance electrical path between the anode and the car body through the paintwork, which will cause a current to flow and cause the anode to corrode even faster (we call this 'accelerated corrosion' in the industry, a problem often caused by welding in a marine environment if the welder is not grounded in a good place). When it rains heavily, there may be a limited amount of protection to the steelwork directly adjacent to the magnets (within a few inches), but it will not propagate to the whole car body (for reasons I will explain if you really want me to). Bo Duke, when you had this installed on your Astra, what was the engine block like? What about the exhaust system? Are you saying that there was no rust whatsoever anywhere on the car? There could be a number of reasons why the steel exposed by the stonechips didn't rust, my first guess would be that the steel body panels may have been zinc coated (galvanized), which is what Vauxhall do on some Astras (I'm not sure about the GSi so don't take this as a certainty). A good coating of zinc on steel will prevent rust for many years in some cases. As for your other points: 3 - Where is this referenced? I didn't see this on the website and I couldn't find reference to this on Google. 4 - I disagree. Rust is just one of thousands of things that can go wrong with a car, and often by the time a car has turned into a rust bucket it usually requires a lot of maintenance in other areas as well (I speak from experience having owned a MK2 Golf GTi for over 4 years and performed all the maintenance myself!). A guarantee that the car would never rust would be a valuable marketing tool. 5 - Yes. There are also numerous other scams around that involve pseudoscience and 'technology' that doesn't work. Some of these scams involve big money and have taken in government agencies in some countries for example: BBC News - Newsnight - Why did UK not ban so-called 'bomb detectors' earlier? Personally I would never put something like this on my car even to test it out to disprove the claims. If a cathodic protection system is not connected up properly, or incorrectly applied, you can get accelerated corrosion caused by the electric current flowing where it shouldn't. Not something I'd want to happen to my car. Also having live uninsulated 50V terminals sitting around on the car is a potential spark risk in the event of an accident where a fuel leak is involved. Hope this is of interest, any more questions please let me know. |
Originally Posted by Ben123456789
(Post 9267420)
Right, I have been in email (and phone) contact with one of the guys at RustStop (I am currently in America), and so far I have received some 'test results' which were sent to me in the form of a few lines copied and pasted from a text document onto a jpeg image, which could have been written by anybody. When I asked to see the rest of the report to review the test procedure, I was told that they didn't want their competitors stealing their 'trade secrets' (!). I replied stating that I would be happy with a report with all 'trade secrets' removed, and they have strangely gone quiet.
This is not the action of a company confident that their product will work or stand up to independent scrutiny. Most reputable manufacturers of anything have no problem submitting their products for independent testing without giving away 'trade secrets' in the process. And independent testing is a waste of time if the report isn't available for peer review. I suspect that either (a) the test report doesn't exist, or (b) the test procedures carried out were not applicable to the intended use (on a car body). Unless I see it, I'm not believing anything this company says. You cannot protect steel from rusting just by passing a current through it, otherwise impressed current cathodic protection could also be used to protect the above ground sections of pipelines, which it can't. You have to pass current through an electrolyte and onto the surface of the steel, where the electrochemical reaction that causes corrosion is occurring. Based on the installation instructions given on the website, I can also tell you why the 'rust magnets' corrode. Note how the website stresses that the anodes should be installed in locations where rain water is guaranteed to flow over them. This is to make sure they rust in the rain and give the impression that they are working. In fact, when it rains the water will create a high resistance electrical path between the anode and the car body through the paintwork, which will cause a current to flow and cause the anode to corrode even faster (we call this 'accelerated corrosion' in the industry, a problem often caused by welding in a marine environment if the welder is not grounded in a good place). When it rains heavily, there may be a limited amount of protection to the steelwork directly adjacent to the magnets (within a few inches), but it will not propagate to the whole car body (for reasons I will explain if you really want me to). Bo Duke, when you had this installed on your Astra, what was the engine block like? What about the exhaust system? Are you saying that there was no rust whatsoever anywhere on the car? There could be a number of reasons why the steel exposed by the stonechips didn't rust, my first guess would be that the steel body panels may have been zinc coated (galvanized), which is what Vauxhall do on some Astras (I'm not sure about the GSi so don't take this as a certainty). A good coating of zinc on steel will prevent rust for many years in some cases. As for your other points: 3 - Where is this referenced? I didn't see this on the website and I couldn't find reference to this on Google. 4 - I disagree. Rust is just one of thousands of things that can go wrong with a car, and often by the time a car has turned into a rust bucket it usually requires a lot of maintenance in other areas as well (I speak from experience having owned a MK2 Golf GTi for over 4 years and performed all the maintenance myself!). A guarantee that the car would never rust would be a valuable marketing tool. 5 - Yes. There are also numerous other scams around that involve pseudoscience and 'technology' that doesn't work. Some of these scams involve big money and have taken in government agencies in some countries for example: BBC News - Newsnight - Why did UK not ban so-called 'bomb detectors' earlier? Personally I would never put something like this on my car even to test it out to disprove the claims. If a cathodic protection system is not connected up properly, or incorrectly applied, you can get accelerated corrosion caused by the electric current flowing where it shouldn't. Not something I'd want to happen to my car. Also having live uninsulated 50V terminals sitting around on the car is a potential spark risk in the event of an accident where a fuel leak is involved. Hope this is of interest, any more questions please let me know. I think all thats left for this device is Mythbusters and I reckon it would be - BUSTED;) |
Nice work Ben, lets see if the suppliers come back with any comments.
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I have sent an email to RustStop with a link to this discussion and asked for them to respond.
I wonder? |
Ben,
Thanks for the response, as previously stated you are obviously more informed on this type of protection than myself. Saying that, there are still unanswered questions which cannot be explained. I know from my last device, that the box you receive is branded with HP and another large well know manufacturer...can't remember which. In addition I had stone chips that did rust on my Astra until I fitted the device, so I swear it could not be galvonised or similar. Personally I'd love to know if I was ripped off last time, but using the arguament that a business will not release internal information to a one off customer does not satify my needs. TBH in today's market place, nobody is prepared to share anything internal, so that didn't supprise me, given that all of your comments could be true. I really would like someone from Rust Stop to come on here and make me wrong....... Thanks Ben, I can see you have put some effort in here! Top Job! :) |
Ayde, mythbusters is one of my favourites, although I don't think they'd take this one on as it doesn't involve blowing anthing up ;)
Bo Duke, these things are rarely straight forward to prove either way simply by discussing them, I can totally appreciate your questions. I'm enjoying debating it :) I'm going to reply again later (off out snowboarding now, that's why I'm in the US!), but to summarise the company has just sent me a couple of test reports. Fair play to them for doing this, but for me they raise a lot more questions than they answer because details of the test procedure are very sketchy and miss out a lot of very important details essential to understanding what process is actually taking place. I will not be posting the reports here or anywhere else (at the request of Ruststop), but I will be taking up my questions with them. I would also welcome the input from one of the engineers at RustStop to try to clarify exactly how they think the system works and add to the discussion, if John5f has emailed them then maybe they will! |
Thanks Ben,
I read so many of these differences of opinion that turn into a slagging match. I'm not interested in a slagging match but I do really want to get to the bottom of this one! Let's hope rust stop come through. I just find it so hard to believe a company specifically setup for this purpose, employing so many people could be a scam....... Lets hope an engineer turns up then! :) Cheers Bo |
PS. Seems to be a lot of interest looking at the views, so it would be in rust stops interest to put us right.....
Thanks Bo |
I have a classic that is rusting.
So await to see what happens with this with interest Keep it going Bo and Ben :) |
Seems this scam is quite old
Dan's Data letters #153 (look at the letter towards the end of the page) The company have registered mutiple domains and created multiple websites for different countries etc. to make themselves look big and legit but in practice it is probably a small operation with a number of franchises in locales. Gets the kits manufactured OEM in china and then just ships them globally. You can make quite a business from selling stuff that doesn't work but looks like it should. My car is an import and is full of this stuff: ?????????? | SEV SPORTS Which realigns the molecules for better performance! I haven't taken any of it off as it actually looks quite nice and shiny! Al |
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