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Ahh balls. Massive brake judder.
Hi Chaps,
Just put on a second hand set of AP5200's with disks and pads off scoobynet. When i bought them i was assured they were ok. So ive put them on ok. The caliper seems to function ok. However when i drive there is a judder through the brake pedal and the car. When i get the brakes warn/stop from high speed the judder is VERY bad and shakes the whole car. I guess the disks are screwed? I tried to get the brakes super hot to discount for any crap on the pads of disks, but it just makes it worse. When they get hot there is a persistant rotational rubbing sound related to speed. Like the disk has expanded and is rubbing on something. Now the adapter to fit the caliper is not the best. Infact the head of the bolt has been ground off a bit so it clears the disk. This might be where its rubbing when the disk expands? Any advice anyone? |
Sounds like you've been sold a donkey
Disks defo (read I'm 100% sure) sound warped And the kit sounds very iffy if it has that little clearance I'd be looking to get my money back and compensation for wasting time Plus you should name the person that sold them on a separate thread and this one so that they dont rip off anyone else |
When you fitted the calipers, were they correctly centered to the disk?
There should be a number of 0.5mm shims that you can use to move the caliper to disc spacing. I just swapped my hubs and the calipers needed re shimming again to suit the new castings. |
No shims. They looked Central Enough.
The calipers have been used on a subaru previously, i expect the adapter n bolts will survive. Just probably warped disks. Now they have been sat in the garden for a while. however i did sand the faces down before using. But yeah its ****ed. Its probably usable but not safely at any speed. Need to get in contact with Ian or something. I paid a decent amount of wedge for them that i dont want to write off. Not sure ill be getting a refund! New this was a bad deal when i set off. Things just didnt add up. Will see what i do about it after a few beers time. |
p.s.
ADMIN please contact me about this matter as soon as possible! pm. |
maybe a pic of the adaptor, etc. would help?? doesn't sound correct at all
also you should really check the discs for "run-out" and also centralise the caliper positioning when fitting, "looking" right is not enough with these kits alyn |
yes put some pics up , you want the brackets to be safe , the last thing you want is them falling or snapping off !
I'll answer your PM shortly Cheers Ian |
Ok thanks for your help guys. Ill get some proper pics up tonight. Stupid scoobyc :S
Wonder if skimming the disks will help. However if the disk is warped its warped. Skimming isnt a good enough fix. I think skimming only ever fixes high/flat spots or contaminated disks rather than actually fixing warping. I assume as they are floating they will expand rather than cone/warp? Ill get some in-situ pics tonight. Sure enough to say the car will not be driven till i get my old brakes back on... |
I'm no Engineer, but :eek::eek::eek:
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The AP`s I had had a solid block to mount too not the same as you have, are you sure the brakes are actually for your car and havent just been made to fit and the seller saw this and passed them on to you knowing this.
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first thing you can see even off the pics is that the caliper does not sit central on the disc but is pushed too far out from the hub (you can see the channel wheer the disc sits in the caliper is off-set)
also the mounting bolts that hold the caliper to the hub dont look big enough for the hub mounts?? or maybe this is just the pics.......... obviously the caliper was originally mad eofr TVR hence the casting, but doesn't meen they shouldn't fit if done correctly alyn |
Well you can see they were originally off a TVR. And yes the adapter was made to fit. The seller has had them on his car for some time. to be fair i think the bracket and the bolts are ok. They are solid. And have proved the test of time. The caliper bores seem the same as any CP5200 so its just got TVR embossed on it.
If Ian/someone could provide a proper mounting bracket that has been used previously. This would potentially mean i would need a new disk/bell. As i dont know what brand they are. I was told at the time but i cant remember. Alyn motorsport or something? Gonna take the other side off tonight if i get time. Ill take some pics with the pads out and caliper n disk bolted on to check clearence. The caliper is solidly attached to the hub. Just the clearance by the head of the bolts within the disk is worrying, rather than the integrity of the bolt. Im also worried. The adapter doesnt seem to be aluminium. One point of having alloy caliper is to reduce flex under heat. I think having a non alloys adapater kinda defeats the point of that. What do you rekon? Perhaps CDF could rig me something up. I believe they make adapters for such things. Gonna try and get the disks skimmed. See if that makes a difference as its relativly cheap. Then work from there with what to do with the adapter. Keep the suggestions coming... |
Any advice on this ian?
Looks like i can get the disks skimmed for 80. but iirc one of them is cracked. |
Hi
To be honest I would not be happy using those brackets , In my kits I make a thicker alloy bracket , but mine fits to the other side of the hubs so the bracket and bolts are no where near the discs , yes the ground down bolts have worked ok till now , but it doesn't mean they could fail in the future. Measure the distance from the inside face of the bell , to the backface of the disc , I can see if its similar to mine to see if my brackets could fit. If the discs are cracked , then you need to see if its worth skimming them , or just renewing them , that is a problem with drilled discs , which is why I recommend grooved only discs. If you need discs I can make them to fit your bells , is it an option to give the whole kit back to the guy you bought it from ? not a great situation to spend out on a kit only to have to small fortune putting it right Cheers Ian |
I wouldnt be happy with those mounts either.
However, it could well be pad deposits from the red stuff pads?? |
i had a look at these when they were up for sale but when he said he was selling them as he had got some ksports,it made me wonder why anyone that that had a set up like that would go out and buy some ksports.
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As said above the mounting adaptor is definatley not genuine AP / godspeed etc.
My 5200 kit has a billet ally mounting block, also the genuine AP bell is different to your one pictured. Disc is definatley not centered in the caliper in the pics but as you say the disc needs securing with wheel nuts to make a proper judgement. I would also recommend cleaning off the new 'finish' on the metal plates that the pads sit on. I have suffered with the pads getting stuck if you get any 'extras' in these areas. They should have a brass coloured finish. |
Also agree with Duncan that the vibration could be pad deposits, i had a high speed vibration with my kit which i chased for ages. Swapping pads away from DS2500's seems to have helped with this.
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im sorry but would you buy a used condom from someone? no so why risk your life and buy used brakes! you have no idea where or what they have done before so chance it? ok calipers are a different matter but discs and pads are pretty much like condoms ...... used!
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Pretty sure its not brake deposits as ive Ran them very hot.
Yes i too was worried about the K-Sport upgrade thing. But i figured for 500 quid i can probably refurbish them, replace the disks and pads and still save money. Thanks for the advice Ian. Ill measure up the disks etc tonight. Need to get the other side off. Yeah i might sand down the face of the pad also. Skimming the disc is going to cost a bit i think. |
Originally Posted by cookie sti
(Post 8944236)
im sorry but would you buy a used condom from someone? no so why risk your life and buy used brakes! you have no idea where or what they have done before so chance it? ok calipers are a different matter but discs and pads are pretty much like condoms ...... used!
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Originally Posted by Ian Godney
(Post 8943793)
Hi
To be honest I would not be happy using those brackets , In my kits I make a thicker alloy bracket , but mine fits to the other side of the hubs so the bracket and bolts are no where near the discs , Cheers Ian Yes. Thats how i figured it would work also. But when put on that way the bugger didnt fit. Assuming all the measurements add up. What kinda figure would we be looking at for adapter and 2 disks? PM me if you prefer not to mention on the thread. They would have to cope with some amature track abuse. |
Hi.
Part two. The other side. Ok looking at the other side. I can see some fluid from both bleed nipples.Perhaps i didnt do them sufficientl or its residual. Cant see any leaks apart from this on either caliper now. Sanded the disks back and i cant find any cracks now. i must have imagined them.. Sanded the disks back as best i can. would be nice to do them further but ive ran out of sand paper. Also toooks some pics with the caliper and disk bolted on.It looks pretty much in the middle. I dont think i could get it any closer to centralised. Also found some writing on the calipers! It Reads: CP5200-371 CP5200-3/9 (i think its /9) CP5200-370 CP5200-314 ISSUE2 See pics below. The **** on the disks was very bad. wouldny be surprised if this was a cause of the vibration. You can also see on the underside of the back siffener, 2 score marks. I take it this is to give the disk a little clearence. Either the bracket is slightly no far enough from the hub, or the disk is 1/2mm too big. I suspect the former. Not sure how much diameter expansion a disk does when hot. Spins freely so not a problem once fitted. Probably done as precautionary measure. Its not very deep tho. Also you can see some scoring on a few of the pistons. Looks like someone has compressed them without being very carful. Just looks like the paint or enaml or whatever it is has come off. Looks worse in the pics. Also the caliper today had a stuck piston! Got it moving easily enough tho, extended it and cleaned it. Do i need to copper grease these pistons up? Did my best to measure things: From the bottom face of the back disk, to the top face of the bell is by the looks of it 64mm. This was done by placing disk bell face down on some glass. Then put a ruled acroll the top horizontal, and one verticle. Pastic ruler so not 100% accurate. http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1724.jpg Looks like disk face is 53.5mm wide Disk width looks like 29mm. No discernable lip. If you need the size of the Adapter to the caliper let me know. i have some measurements of this too. And now Some Pics: Crap Disk Before http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1649.jpg After sanding http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1662.jpg http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1665.jpg Some Fluid around Bleed nipple. after sitting for a week with only turning the car around and a good few pedel compressions. http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1650.jpg Caliper Central locations. Pics are not the best because of shadows. Looks ok in real person mind. http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1656.jpg http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1653.jpg Scoring of bridge diffener http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1694.jpg Scoring on one piston. http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1671.jpg Writing on calipers. Both sides of both calipers. CP5200-371 Issue2 http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1677.jpg CP5200-3/9 (i think its /9) Issue 2 http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1685.jpg CP5200-370 ISSUE2 http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1691.jpg CP5200-314 ISSUE2 http://gticlub.net/alignmentnbrakes/...e/DSCF1697.jpg More Pictures! |
Please advise on the above.
Id also like to know. If your adapter would fit. If so how much? Also how much full a full refurb/refurb kit for these calipers? Thanks CHris |
bttt
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Originally Posted by scoobyc
(Post 8944491)
Pretty sure its not brake deposits as ive Ran them very hot.
No offense but the brake kit looks like a dogs dinner and unsafe. |
Originally Posted by dynamix
(Post 8953459)
That's what would make me think they are pad deposits.
No offense but the brake kit looks like a dogs dinner and unsafe. Im hoping Ian will come on and say "yeah our alloy adapter" will work with that for £x and a refurb kit for the calipers is only £x. Then its just a matter of weather the disks are shagged or not. Which after the amount of crap i cleaned off i suspect they are actually ok. |
bttt
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Last time I had serious brake judder it was a build up of deposits when I moved from Z compound PF's to 01 compound. Cleared fine after driving whilst left foot on the brake followed by a few laps on track.
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