Talk to me about the E46 3 series
 

I think its time to get rid of my Clio 172. I’m coming up to 30 and I’m getting a bit fed up of driving a tin box. Its great fun to drive fast but not so nice when you just want to cruise.
So I’m looking at getting something a bit more grown up. I was looking at the E46’s for sale last night and it seems there’s quite a lot of difference between specs and how they look. If I get one it will have to have nice wheels and be colour coded etc.
The model I think would be best is the 325Ci Sport. However, I know nothing about modern beemers really. I’m looking to spend about £6k and for that I think I can get an 02 plate or near. Obviously it will have a few miles on it (60k+) but I only do 5k a year.
So what are they like? Will it drive nicely if it has 70k on it? I know the engines are good, what about suspension etc? Will I run into expensive servicing and other costs?

The things that are important to me are:

- Nice and quiet in the cabin. Low outside noise would be great
- Good ride quality. I don’t want to be bouncing around like I do in the clio.
- I am 6’5 and need to fit comfortably. Will I have enough room?
- Must have full leather, cruise control & air con. Heated seats preferred as well
- Can I use my I-pod with the standard stereo?

Mpg is not really a problem, but what about servicing etc? What are the service intervals?
How stiff is the suspension in the 325 sport? Anyone know?

Anyone know the performance of a 325? I’m assuming it would be similar to the Clio?

Any other models I should consider? 320D seems a good idea but when I look at the wheels etc they just look pants compared to the nice ones. I cannot be tempted to modify so it needs to look good to start with.
Anything else I need to know?
Thanks for any help
Steve

I don't have direct ownership experience of an e46 but I did have almost identical motivations and requirements when I purchased my new car on Sunday. Having considered many alternatives I went with a Mondeo ST220. It's has a full leather interior, heated and electrically operated seats, climate control, built in sat-nav with aux input for ipods, cruise, electric everything, masses of space, and is comfortable and relaxing to drive but has a sporty edge when you want it. At 223bhp is can hold it's own and is excellent fun and quick through the twisties. On my first night we tried a few runs from 30mph-upwards against my mates 225bhp Audi S3. The Mondeo was fractionally faster, which came as something of a surprise to me. I'm confident I've made the right decision; a sorted BMW is probably a better car but for £5-7k you simply won't get a BMW with the kit, reasonable miles, etc that will even compete with the shan-badged Ford. Mines is early 2005(54) with 34k miles, two owners and FSH. If I could have found even a 2003 330i with lots of the toys and sub 50k miles, then I'd have probably jumped at it, but that's virtually impossible IMHO. I should also stress that inbuilt badge snobbery and RWD would be the only reasons I'd desire a 330i more.

I owned a 330CI Sport E46 and it was fabulous. Sold it with 60k miles on the clock and it was sharp, rattle free, smooth as silk. Gearbox was still taut as well as the suspension.

Fantastic car I regretted selling at the time.

Look around and make sure you go out in any car you look at. I have been out in a 330d that was three years old with 20k miles (yeah, right) that felt like a minicab.

Find the right car and you will love it.

PS The handling and ride seem quite benign until you push on a bit and then the car comes alive. Very quick if you are committed. No turbo rush though!

A 325i will seem pretty slow in comparison to your Clio. They're heavy cars these days so the 2.5 litre power plant whilst sufficient to be dragging it around will not seem sporty (unlike in my E30 :D). Go for the 330i or better if you can :)

Go for a 330d......remap!!

Interesting Saxo Boy. That's just about the only other car I've considered. They look really good standard so I know I wouldn't be tempted to waste money modifying.
I did however have a new shape mondeo as a courtesy car once and although it was pure luxury to drive, the seat didn't go low enough for me really. Is it a similar amount of room in your shape? I will need to have a try I guess.

I know the BMW's I'm looking at will be higher mileage, and that is my only concern that I'd be buying an older car with more miles than the clio. My clio is pretty mint, 2003 and only has 29k on it.

Spooky - how did you find the mpg on the 330? From what I saw today its only slightly worse than the 325?
Also how much room is in there for the driver? Enough for a 6'5 person?

Falkster - Not sure I could afford? Although I'm not really in a rush and might be able to save more

You'll need to shop around or find an enthusiast maintained car to avoid shagged alloys and rust is not uncommon on a 2002 from the sheds I saw.

Also Saxo Boy, whats the mpg like on the mondeybogey?
I just had a look at some on autotrader and they sure do come specced up!!! Loving the gizmos. Think you may have changed my mind. Gonna need to drive both but first I need to return the clio to standard and start saving!

I couldn't say as I've never been in a standard Mondeo with standard seats...it's recaro's in the ST220. I'm 6ft on the nose and there is bags of room. In fact, there's bags of room everywhere! The rear seats, boot, up front, anywhere is spacious. That said the height adjustment on the seats is done by separately lowering the front and the back of the base cushion. This gives a lot of adjustability but I'm still fannying around days after buying it trying to get the 'perfect' position. I'm a bit anal about such things though :D

As for MPG I'm not really qualified to say as I've only had a tank and a half through her. However, according to the computer I've averaged around 24.5mpg and that includes the return trip from London to Edinburgh, an evening of continuous racing against an S3 with some *ahem* speeds achieved and some hacking around town. I was also 'testing' my new purchase somewhat on the way home so don't assume I was at 70mph with the cruise on the whole way ;) If I had to guess I'd expect I'm going to be between 25-27mpg for mixed driving and I can certainly live with that.

I often find it's the small thing with a car that make the difference; features I'm loving so far are:

1. Press and hold the plip and all 4 windows drop to exchange air that's in the car. Even doing this on approach gives 5-10secs for the worst of heat build up to escape. Reversing the procedure closes all windows if you forget before turning off the engine.
2. There is a button to maximise all settings for clearing the windscreen. So simple, but will be really cool in the colder months. Pressing it again, resumes your standard climate settings.
3. You're about two touch screen presses away from shutting the sat nav bird up, if you need to.
4. The rain sensitive wipers don't need reset each time you enter the car. It makes a single sweep to clear the screen and, presumably, evaluate a 'dry' setting. Therefore, if you leave the wipers on auto and the lights on auto you should never have to adjust either.
5. The indicator has a soft touch function for 3 flashes, just tap it and there is no need to manually cancel it.
6. The cruise control resume button also takes the cruise control off and is located on the right hand side of the steering wheel. Thus, with arm on rest or window ledge you tap it to coast up behind slower traffic and then tap it again to resume when they budge over. This takes some timing :)
7. I've not seen it in action but it has an anti-dazzle rear view mirror as standard and they are nice to have.

I'm sure I'll discover more. Of course, the best feature is the V6 low down grunt for in and around town. Provided you don't come to a complete stop you can pull away quite cleanly in 2nd or 3rd. Often, you can drive many miles around town, including slow 90-degree turns, in only 3rd gear. It'll pull from under 1000rpm and at 30-40mph 3rd isn't over-revving or such like.

had this in a RR and its such a nice extra

Hmmmm.........mpg doesn't sound too great! I won't be doing a huge amount of mileage so I guess I can forgive that a little. I only do 3 miles to work and most of that is stuck in a queue so I'll get really bad mpg.
Still, at least it would be fast

If you do pull away from low speed in 3rd, what's the pick up like? Is it sluggish till a particular point or is all from low down?

Just wondering as there's not a huge amount of torque there.

The BMWs should have all of the above goodies too, bar the modern sat nav and soft touch indicators (you wouldn't use them in a BMW anyway). Just make sure you look for a well specced one and you should be fine. I've had a 330 CI and now run a 330d remapped and the engines are crackers.

You'll have no problem at 6"5 as the seats go miles back and are infinitely adjustable. You should get a minimum of 25 mpg average no matter what model you buy. Go for a Sport model as they look and handle far better than the SEs (although the ride is pretty firm and can be fidgety on bad surfaces). With a Sport, it won't matter which engine you go for as they will all look the same, even the 320d.

Pick up isn't electric but it's clean unless you try to snap the throttle open in which case it grumbles a little. It's got more than enough get up and go at 1000rpm in 3rd to keep up with the traffic and feel like you are making progress, you're not waiting for something to happen whilst it shudders away. However, it's not fast...you need a big chevy V8 for that :D In general the ST220 is quite top happy with it's power delivery, it's a lot like an M3 actually as it gains more and more thrust towards the red-line. It picks up noticeably at 4000rpm and then again at 5000rpm. The delivery is so smooth and linear that I was regularly slamming into the limiter.

For the record I wasn't making any direct comparisons. However, from memory the auto-wipers in the e46 usually have to be reset each time you start the engine. My old 406 was like that as well if I recall. I like the fact that with the Mondeo when you put it in auto mode it stays like that until you take it out. In other words I can drive 4 journeys in a row and nowt happens and then midway through the 5th if it rains the wipers are onto it straight away. Yes, I'm precisely that lazy :D

Also, and again from memory, with my mates M3 I'm sure to turn the cruise-control off and go into coast mode you have to either hit the 'I/0' button which cancels your previous setting or depress clutch/brake. I could be wrong though.

My list really was just a non-exhaustive list of things that make life easier and that I like. Neat touches are often what make or break an every day car for me.

e46 bms are great, ive owned 2 330ds now and driven several others 330is and 320ds. I would try and get a 330i they 325 is ok but not exactly super fast (neither is the 330i if im being honest).
They drive great if you find a good one. Mine has nearly 90k on it and drives as good as the 40k one i sold about a year ago.
I hate to agree with anyone called Saxo boy (sorry hate saxos! nothing personal!)but he does have a point about the mondeo, you get a lot of kit for the money. I would take a good look at a mondeo if your money only allows you a 325i.

Its not easy to connect an ipod to the standard stereo (cable is about £190), post sep 04 stereos will play mp3 cds or just change the head unit (becker ones provide the same colour display)
the ride quality is great SE slightly softer than sport but still v good (SE looks like crap though)
you will fit fine lots of seat adjustments.
they all have crusie and air con (AFAIK)
leather no problems (heated doubtful, as it was a pricey extra)

Saxo, you should be a salesman as you are making a car I have never, ever considered almost tempting to look at in terms of price :D

I would have to say though the E46 is a nice motor if you get the right model. Still looks great and to me less dated compared to the E9* than the previous version did to the the E46.

I really like the look of the Coupe versions myself although the Saloon is obviously going to be a better bet for someone with a family.

I found the view out of an E9* to be a bit too "pillar box" when compared to the view out of the E46. I couldn't work out if that was due to the dash being higher or the front screen being shorter in height.

Since this seems to be turning into a Mondeo appreciation thread, I had an ST24 when they were new. Coming from a Calibra Turbo, it wasn't nearly as fast or economical, but the jump up in all round refinement and handling was marked. Never gave a moment's trouble.

I really loved that Calibra (yes yes, I know ;) ) and while the ST24 doesn't have such fond memories for reasons I can't quite put my finger on, I have to say it was a much better sorted car. I can only imagine that an ST220, many models later and with more power, is an exceptionally good drive and really excellent value.

And I've never been a Beemer fan, not that there's much logic in that, but since when did logic have anything to do with it :D

On my 2nd E46 330Ci, have a 2003 clubsport at the mo , brilliant car, the engine is superb, mine has SSG which has taken a bit of getting used to, but works quite well, its a high spec car with, sat nav, xenons, ssg, sunroof etc, beautifully built, not bad on fuel av 26/27 mpg, decent ride quality, still look stunning imo, a very easy car to live with day to day.

I'd have a 330i over a 325i any day of the week, I had a nice 330i sport, the engine is super smooth and you really dont feel the speed creeping up, its totaly different to a clio, and coming from a 172 you may not enjoy the smooth delivery of power, go and have a test drive and see what you think,
ps watch the back end on wet roundabouts etc :D

Don't get a 2.5 whatever you do after having the clio 172 as you will be well pi$$ed when you put your foot down and it does nothing.

I've driven an e46 325 coupe quite a lot and they are very smooth very refined cars. But, the performance isnt much to write home about (engine sounds very nice though) - in fact I would suggest that the golf gt tdi I had at the same time (5 years ago) was a better motorway car and better at overtaking. Plus, I think that the BMW gearboxes are absolutely hateful the the 3 generations of 3 series that I've driven regularly; e36 318 e46 325 and the newest (? model) 335. I hate the vague feel of where the gears are and the long throw, shudder.... Have a look at an e46 330d if you're going that route. Personally I'd save up a bit and look at e46 M3's.

BTW I'm 30 and I know what you mean :D but I went the stuttgart route :thumb:

Thanks for all the advice guys. Definitely leaning towards the Mondeo at the moment. Got a few months of saving ahead of me before I test drive one. Just hope selling the clio isn't a nightmare!!!

I'm guessing the above are on the newer model - E46 is slightly different:

1) Same
2) Same
3) One button press, followed by a press-and-hold for a couple of seconds. Sadly there aren't too many cars around with sat nav as it was an expensive option, but the maps are being kept updated and I do find it very reliable.
4) They do need to be switched on each time you start the car. Not entirely sure why TBH, but compared to having to switch them on and off all the time as you drive through showers it's still much more convenient.
5) E46 doesn't have this feature, thankfully. I test drove a car which did and I hated it!
6) It works slightly differently, but the effect is the same. You can press the on/off button once to disengage the system, coast down to a lower speed, then press another button to resume your previous speed.
7) Same, and very effective.

He was listing features on his ST220 rather than a 3 series

auto lights are probably my favourite features. just leabe the button in the auto setting and you never have to worry about them! auto dimming rear view mirror also excellent.

Are these things even slightly important? Turning the lights on and off has never been a major chore for me.

My Audi does loads of things automatically that I really wish it didn't. And it all adds weight, and cost, and more things to go wrong. Electric seats, driver and passenger - havn't adjusted mine for months. Auto air con that comes and goes when it pleases, not when I'm hot or cold. Bl00dy lights everywhere, auto dimming of course, in all the footwells and two in the doors :rolleyes: Even electric windows - I can manage a winder for a drive-though KFC thank you.

Get rid of those and it would be 200k lighter, a few £k cheaper, and it would go better, too.

I sort of went the opposite went from a Clio 172 plus a few other cars in between before the e46 325i Sport and then back to a Clio Trophy. As to be expected the 325 is better built and makes a great cruiser but it doesn't mean you can't have a bit of fun with the Beemer and has great RWD handling and a lotta fun on a wet round-about.

The Sport suspension is stiffer than standard but not as stiff as the Clio and apparently the suspension bushes are the most common things to go though I had no problems with mine. Had the Beemer for just under 3 years as was absolutely faultless and 100% reliable. If you're only gonna do mostly short journeys, make sure you take it for a long blast at the weekends, as short journeys tend cause a build up of "mayonaise" in the cam cover caused by condensation in the engine not being run long enough to heat up to burn off the moisture. This is common on cars with bigger engines, but I was alarmed at first, but wasn't loosing any coolant and was fine after a long run, plus I've not heard of gasket failures on these engines (stainless steel gasket).

Performance wise, its not too far off but still a little slower than a 172. On my short runs to the train station (3 miles) I averaged around 26-28mpg. Servicing is cheaper than the Clio if you take it to a specialist, inspection I around £150 and inspection II £300. Service intervals are variable but 15k miles seems to be normal.

I love the Clio Trophy (i'm 37 so not a boy racer, a man racer perhaps!) but I do sometimes miss some aspects of the Beemer. But for the short journeys I do and the need for something smaller for station parking, the Clio is ideal for me and makes the short journeys all the more invigorating/exciting than the Beemer.

If you can, try and stretch to the 330, due to the gearing, the mpg is similar to the 325, but still hugely faster, plus they have bigger brakes. I wish I did.

What mpg are you getting?

I am averaging 39 mpg from about 50/50 town and A-road. Averaged 43 mpg on my last tank too!