WHAT ECU FOR 400BHP+++
ok guys i'm looking to find out what ecu would be best for my 96 wrx.
what makes are availible out there?? have read about ecu's that run anti lag, launch control and 2 boost settings. is that a simtek ecu? if it is, is there different kinds of simtek? reason i ask is i have just found a simtek piggy back ecu in a car i'm breaking, there is 2 small box's with a vacum pipe to one of them? is this what i would need or do simtek do a complete ecu that replaces the old ecu?? any help plz guys |
Depends on your budget really, Simtek is a good way to go, Motec/ Autronic Power FC etc
Simtek will run allow you to run Anti-lag etc yes, i think it,s about £1500, don,t quote me on that though..:o |
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do simtek do complete replacement ecu's for the standard ones? as the one i have is only a piggy back thing hardwired into the cars loom??
i guess this is not the full on simtek package i'm looking for??? |
All available aftermarket remappable ECUs will control any bhp level (within reason). The amount of potential bhp depends on the engine hardware and all supporting mods... then ultimately the skills of the mapper to bring it all together. It's a bit like cooking a meal - you can have all the best available ingredients [engine and mods]; but unless they're prepared and cooked to perfection [mapping the ECU], you won't realise the perfect dish [optimum power/torque/drivability/safety].
Sorry, went off on one, there :cuckoo:. If you wanna keep costs to a minimum, then get the ESL daughterboard for £525 + VAT. If you want the best features/capability per £ then, as Pete said, the Simtek would be the ECU of choice - £895 + VAT. Those prices are from JGM's website and he can supply, fit and map them for that price all in. He can travel to you to do so (you pay for his fuel on top). |
Originally Posted by adzer
(Post 8412920)
do simtek do complete replacement ecu's for the standard ones?...
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Solaris :thumb:
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: i just had a look at whats fitted to the car i'm breaking and its not a simtek but in fact a dastek piggy back......
are these any good? what they worth as i'll just be selling it |
Originally Posted by dynamix
(Post 8413036)
Solaris :thumb:
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Originally Posted by dynamix
(Post 8413036)
Solaris :thumb:
If you do go for this then Pat Herborne would be my choice as a mapper. Apart from the anti lag and launch control and other bits, it will give you more than 2 boost settings mode switch. :thumb: I believe tuners are now beginning to look at Solaris as a potential rival to Motec. |
with knock control too i think it is excellent (have yet to try it myself though)
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Originally Posted by Pete
(Post 8412867)
Depends on your budget really, Simtek is a good way to go, Motec/ Autronic Power FC etc
Simtek will run allow you to run Anti-lag etc yes, i think it,s about £1500, don,t quote me on that though..:o |
Originally Posted by JP4
(Post 8413237)
I agree with Dynamix - I have Solaris in mine and could not be happier.:D
If you do go for this then Pat Herborne would be my choice as a mapper. Apart from the anti lag and launch control and other bits, it will give you more than 2 boost settings mode switch. :thumb: I believe tuners are now beginning to look at Solaris as a potential rival to Motec. i know you love that solaris and a few members are talking about it. why should i buy solaris over simtek sell it to me.lol |
Originally Posted by mus 1st class sti type r
(Post 8413885)
jp hows it going,
i know you love that solaris and a few members are talking about it. why should i buy solaris over simtek sell it to me.lol Re Solaris.....as described by one tuner....."Solaris is the most capable ECU currently available for less than £2000. Boasting features ordinarily only available on high end, high cost motorsport ECUs, the Solaris ECS brings powerful engine control to fast road and entry level motorsport enthusiasts." Another quote..... "Torque Developments International adopt the Solaris ECU as an engine control solution for applications that require an exceptional level of feature rich and high resolution control fidelity". Features include: Boost control Closed loop fuelling and knock control Anti lag Traction control Launch control CAN bus or RS232 comms for digital dash boards Data logging A full list of features can be found here: Solaris S- ECU Range Features In Detail Fuelling Control 4 base Injection time maps Secondary Base Injection time map Secondary Base Injection time blend Injection End angle Injection end angle change rate limit 2 injector Split maps Primary injection End angle Retard Secondary Injection End angle retard 4 Wideband lambda closed loop maps Narrow band closed loop control Overrun Fuel cut-off Fuelling Corrections: Global Multiplier 360 Sync Multiplier Secondary multiplier Barometric Pressure Multiplier Air Charge Temperature multiplier Engine coolant multiplier Load Multiplier Cylinder trim Multiplier Primary and Secondary Battery Adders Transient Fuelling Correction Ignition Control 4 Base Ignition maps Coil charge time Coil charge limiting Ignition Safety Exclusion zone Corrections: Global Adder Engine Oil Temperature Adder Barometric Pressure Adder Engine Coolant Temperature adder Engine coolant Temperature Adder Relative fuel pressure adder Load adder Cylinder Trim adder Late ignition Coil charge adder Boost Control Rpm/TPS based overall enable control Boost Target map Wastegate duty map (2 waste gates) Closed loop Boost control Closed loop Post restrictor control Closed loop turbo speed control Adjustable PWM frequency for Boost control Solenoid Gear Shift Set-up Gear shift mode (switch/Auto/Manual/none) Manual Gear Box Cut Setup: Polarity and Input pull-up Adjustment High voltage threshold Low voltage threshold Voltage Hysteresis Debounce Time Gear Cut Open and Closed loop Gear cut Cut mask time Cut enable based on gear or min rpm Override Ignition Exclusion zone during gear cut Low load fuel cut based on TPS or Rpm Ramp out cut : Cut time based on gear Fuel cut severity based on gear Ignition cut Severity based on gear Fuel multiplier based on gear Ignition retard based on gear Drive by wire target multiplier based on gear Open Loop main cut: Cut time based on gear Fuel cut severity based on gear Ignition cut Severity based on gear Fuel multiplier based on gear Ignition retard based on gear Drive by wire target multiplier based on gear Open Loop main cut: Cut time based on gear Fuel cut severity based on gear Ignition cut Severity based on gear Fuel multiplier based on gear Ignition retard based on gear Drive by wire target multiplier based on gear Delta Proportion for shift complete based on gear Dog to Dog kick time Retry Cut time based on gear Retry Fuel cut severity based on gear Retry Ignition cut Severity based on gear Retry Fuel multiplier based on gear Retry Ignition retard based on gear Failure Count TPS threshold Failure Count to disable closed loop gear cut Gear Blip Blip Mask time Blip time based on gear Blip target based on gear Blip roll on rate based on gear Blip duty effect Throttle Jacker Control TJC PWM frequency and Polarity adjustment TJC Direction polarity TJC enable/disable when engine stopped TJC Drive enable target threshold TJC Drive enable error threshold Minimum Final control duty Maximum final control duty TJC Duty Bias TJC Proportional gain based on gear TJC Control Derivative Gain based on gear TJC Derivative active error zone TJC Target in crank mode TJC Target in run mode Positioning failure error threshold Positioning failure duration threshold Throttle Bypass Value control TPV PWM frequency and Polarity adjustment TPV enable/disable when engine stopped Minimum Bypass duty Maximum bypass duty Bypass duty in crank mode Bypass duty in run mode Limp Switch Setup Limp Switch Polarity TBV Duty TJV Target Drive by wire target Anti Lag System Overall Enable Bypass Duty Effect High Throttle Bypass Disable Threshold EGT Control Adjustable Breakpoints for ALS calibrations Off Calibration Fuel cut and shutdown delay Startline Calibration Bypass Vehicle Speed Exit throttle angle Fuel Cut % Ignition retard % Fuel Multiplier Bypass Duty Recover Fuel cut 4 Main ALS Calibrations Fuel Duty % Ignition Retard % Fuel Multiplier Bypass Duty Recover Fuel cut Throttle Timeout High Temperature recovery Entry Air Charge Temperature Entry Air Charge Temperature Guard time Exit Air charge Temperature Air Charge Temperature Override ride on Starting Entry EGT Entry EGT Guard time Exit EGT Plenum Damping Entry Throttle Angle Exit Throttle angle Rate of Increase clip for Manifold pressure measurement Fixed Injection end angle Pit Lane Limit Calibration Selection Override Disable ALS during Pit Limit Select ALS calibration 1-4 During Pit Limit Nitrous Control Control Valve PWM frequency Adjustment RPM/TPS/MAP Breakpoint adjustments 4 Base Duty Maps Maximum Rate of duty increase PWM battery adder Base fuel adder Maximum Base fuel adder decay rate Fuel adder tuning based on rpm Fuel adder tuning based on MAP Ignition adder Maximum Rate if Ignition adder increase Traction Control Minimum Vehicle Speed enable Disable time after gear cut Steering angle based Spin targets Lateral G based spin targets Spin target tuning Minimum Spin Target Base Gain Torque Reduction Clamp Fuel cut severity Ignition Retard Basic Knock Control Standard on S6, Not available on S8C or S4C Full Knock Control Standard on S8C, Optional on S6, not available on S4C) Knock control enable on TPS or MAP target Ignition advance when knock control active Disable time after gear cut Reset Ignition retard on gear cut First event Ignition retard step Ignition retard Step Severe event ignition step Maximum ignition retard Non-knocking cycles until reinstate step Ignition reinstate step Ignition retard threshold for full fuel cut Ignition retard when knock sensing failed Starting Preliminary Fuel injection (2) Base fuel injection (2) Fuel multiplier Ignition angle (2) Fuel injection end angle Coil charge multiplier Valid cam signal revs for 720 sync Minimum Engine speed for 720 sync Starting waits for 720 sync Idle Control Base Bypass Duty (2) Air charge temp duty adder Target engine speed (2) Closed Loop – Enable run time Enable vehicle speed Enable engine speed error Enable load select Enable load Base Ign adder Proportional duty adder Integral Duty enable engine speed error threshold Integral duty gain Integral duty minimum Interval duty maximum Integral decay Bypass duty effect Idle stepper control PWM frequency Length of step sequence Output duty sequence (4) Step drive time Power off time Initialisation direct Number of steps for initialisation Number of steps Minimum target in crank Minimum target in run Limiters Map limit: Pressure source Pressure limit base Fuel cut severity Pit lane limit: Maximum enable speed Timeout Target vehicle speed Target engine speed (first gear) Target engine speed (second gear) Override ignition exclusion zone during pit lane limit World series and Le Mans Strategies Rev cut : Engine speed measure Engine speed Engine speed Hysteresis Instant fuel cut Instant ignition cut Omit ignition cut Rev limit Engine speed limit Engine speed limit in limp mode Engine speed Hysteresis Limit type Severity High fuel pressure cutout Launch Control Maximum Vehicle speed for Activation Base Engine speed Fuel cut severity Ignition retard Ignition retard Timeout Ignition retard disable exhaust temp Exit vehicle speed Ignition Retard ramp in rate Drive by wire launch assist: Cranking throttle position Rev up Delay Rev up throttle position Rev up time Launch Throttle position AutoStart: Auto start enable Weight off wheels time to arm Weight on wheels time to trigger Maximum cranking time Drive by wire Position control: Enabled when engine stopped PWM Frequency Base Duty Proportional / Derivative Gain Integral Gain Integral Minimum Integral Maximum Final Duty Minimum Final duty maximum Acceptable error margin Maximum duration outside error margin Minimum target in crank Maximum target in crank Minimum target in run Pedal demand filter constant Pedal position to throttle position curve Rescale demand above idle control After start limit Limp home mode target Variable Valve timing Vvt1 Inlet/exhaust angle latch points Vvt1 Inlet/exhaust angle latch offsets Vvt2 Inlet/exhaust angle latch points Vvt2 Inlet/exhaust angle latch offsets Engine enable speed Open loop: Inlet/exhaust switchover engine speed Inlet/exhaust duty at low engine speed Inlet/exhaust duty at high engine speed Closed loop : Inlet angle target Exhaust angle target Failure error threshold Failure error time PWM: Inlet base duty Inlet proportional gain Inlet integral gain Inlet integral minimum Inlet integral maximum Exhaust base duty Exhaust proportional gain Exhaust integral gain Exhaust interval minimum Exhaust integral maximum Control valves: Vvt1 Inlet/exhaust drive direction Vvt2 Inlet/exhaust drive direction Datastreams DataStream select Custom CAN: Frame identifier Frame frequency Frame content Fully configurable 8-point external calibration switch for switching combinations of: (Optional) Fuel map Ignition map Starting Map Select Base Lambda Target table Base Lambda Target adder based on TPS Base Fuel multiplier based on TPS Base Ignition Multiplier Based on TPS Rev Limit Reduction Wastegate control Map Target Adder Wastegate TPS Progression Multiplier ALS Calibration Select (If not on separate switch) Nitrous Calibration Select (If not on separate switch) Pit Limit (If not on separate switch) Launch Control (If not on separate switch) Tyre Type (Wet/Dry) Drive by wire target Idle Control Base switch Fully configurable 8-point external calibration switch for the Traction control. Sensor Input functions: (Availability dependent on number of input pins free) Acceleration sensors (Lateral/Longitudal/Vertical G and Yaw) Air Charge temp (2) Air Inlet temp (2) Ambient Air temp (1) Barometric Absolute Pressure (1) Beacon input (for lap timing) (1) Cam position (5, (vvt:2 inlet, 2 exhaust) phase) Crankcase Pressure (4) Crank position (2) Suspension Damper Position (Sensor per corner) (4) Engine coolant Pressure (1) Engine coolant Temp (4) Engine oil pressure (4) Engine oil temp (1) EGT (2, 1 on S6 and S4C) Fuel pressure (2) Fuel temp (1) Gear cut Request Gear position (1) , Gear position also possible by wheel speed. Inlet port position (2) Knock (4, 1 on S6) (Dedicated) Lambda NTK/LSU (2, 1 on S6 and S4C) (Dedicated) Load cells (3) Manifold Absolute Pressure (4) Pedal Position (2) Post restrictor pressure (2) Steering wheel angle (1) Tacho Input (1) Throttle Position (4) Throttle Jacker Position (1) Turbo Speed (4) Vehicle Speed (All 4 wheels + radar) Fuel Consumption Switch (1) Switch Inputs (Availability dependent on number of input pins free) Number of Positions in Brackets. Anti Lag Switch (2) Calibration Switch (8) Clutch Depressed switch (2) Enable switch (To enable what?) Limp switch (2) Nitrous Switch (2) Pit Lane limit switch (2) Rain Light switch (2) Sensor Switch ????? Traction Control Switch (8) Weight on wheels switch ??? Output functions (Availability dependent on number of free output pins (Ancillary + spare injector) Alternator Auto Start Brake by Wire (2) Change light Clutch Control Drive by Wire (2) Engine Speed Controlled (2) Exhaust Gas Recirculation Fan control (3) Fuel Pump Relay (2) Gear Shift cut Request Headlight Control Heated Screen Control Idle Speed Control (4) Lambda heater (2) Lateral G Negative Lateral G Positive Nitrous Control Rain Light Tacho Throttle Bypass Valve Throttle Jacker Control Throttle Jacker Direction VVT (4, 2 inlet, 2 exhaust) Wastegate Control (2) Wastegate Antiphase (2) Water injection Have I sold it to you?? :D |
That's just a list of features.
Both ecu's will let the car make power however the main benefits of Solaris over Simtek and the reason that I have chosen to go the Solaris route for my next step are: - 4 Completely separate maps on Solaris rather than offset maps to allow for 4 different fuel, ignition and boost maps at the flick of a switch - autolearning to help speed up the mapping process - good data logging abilities to retrospectively review the performance and amend. Simtek's is limited from what I have heard. - and most importantly active knock control to protect the engine from det in the event of a bad batch of fuel, mechanical issues or anything else that would cause det. Simtek will just flash the CEL rather than doing anything about it like the Solaris will. - flat throttle shifting |
Originally Posted by dynamix
(Post 8414536)
- good data logging abilities to retrospectively review the performance and amend. Simtek's is limited from what I have heard.
Re data logging - was speaking to Pat on this yesterday which will be important for my runs on the drag strip! All I need now is to invest in a laptop! :D |
Must say I personally wouldn't chose the Solaris over the SimTek for a road car @ circa 400bhp. Mine runs very well on its SimTek thankyou very much and so do my all of my customer cars.
Should I be building a big budget Track car, with a huge focus on ringing every bit of performance out of it I would firstly talk to Andy @ SimTek, tell him what I want, tell him I am quite happy to pay extra for it, and see what he could come up with. Nitrous control came about because of this aswell as many other options that now come free, the 2 maps via a switch for instance. If I had exhausted this option and found he couldn't do something the Solaris could, I would look at it as a viable option to Motec. |
I know what you are saying Martyn but I have been asking for a DBW for Simtek for the past year and it seems we are no further forward. I appreciate the OP does not have DBW but that is my own situation. I have ignored the fact that Simtek DBW does not exist for the purposes of my own comparison/evaluation.
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The main problem currently Duncan is getting the proper connectors out of Japan, something Solaris were also struggling with when I spoke to Pat a while back. They may have sorted this since then.
He said at the time that he would mod the loom which is fine, but other than Motec nobody else had an original case option for the early DBW cars. Gems just skipped right over them and went to the latest cars first. Andy is trying to develop the SimTek to fit in either car with options in the map for the 2 or 4 cam control options like the Motec. He is also of course still finishing off the EVO prototype ecu, and we hope to be trying it soon before it goes into production. |
Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
(Post 8413523)
1200 not 1500 :)
Is that fitted Si?? I was close anyway....:razz: ;) |
Originally Posted by MartynJ
(Post 8414862)
The main problem currently Duncan is getting the proper connectors out of Japan, something Solaris were also struggling with when I spoke to Pat a while back. They may have sorted this since then.
He said at the time that he would mod the loom which is fine, but other than Motec nobody else had an original case option for the early DBW cars. Pat has DBW working on Solaris though :thumb: |
Originally Posted by dynamix
(Post 8414536)
- and most importantly active knock control to protect the engine from det in the event of a bad batch of fuel, mechanical issues or anything else that would cause det. Simtek will just flash the CEL rather than doing anything about it like the Solaris will. What's DBW? Excuse my ignorance. Got my scoob out of a month's hibernation this weekend, good to be driving it again. Really must hook the laptop up to the permanent Datalogit+Innovate and start learning about this stuff :) Andy |
Drive by Wire - ie electronic throttle control
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Originally Posted by Pete
(Post 8414863)
Is that fitted Si??...
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Cor, that was quick, you replied whilst I was editing my post :D
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Originally Posted by Andy916
(Post 8415028)
Really? So the Simtek is no better than my Apexi PFC in that respect? Worse in fact, as you could EASILY miss a CEL flash in the heat of the moment. With the PFC I routinely check the hand commander 8-channel monitor screen at the end of a journey, to see the max (potential) knock reading. It's an integer scale, 0-80 I think...
Re the Commander's knock level... In the manual it says that a level of '60' might indicate knock, implying that anything lower should be okay. I had my PFC mapped by JGM on 97 RON - but use V-Power 99. Typically my max knock readings are low- to mid-30's on WOT/high load, which I understand is 'normal' for my 93 WRX. If it were to read, say, anywhere between 40-60 (e.g for stale fuel or 95 RON 'emergency' fills), would it be actually knocking then? :wonder: Or is that quoted '60' figure just plain pony? :confused: |
Originally Posted by Pete
(Post 8414863)
Is that fitted Si??
I was close anyway....:razz: ;) |
Originally Posted by joz8968
(Post 8415068)
Andy, I do the same and totally see your point. So really the main benefits I can see for the Simtec over the PFC are the two separate maps and running MAFless. But re the latter, the PFC can monitor the MAF's status (amongst other helpful sensors/switches), so acts as a great troubleshooter/potential moneysaving diagonistic tool. The Commander/flashing CEL is great... so long you monitor it closely/frequently.
Re the Commander's knock level... In the manual it says that a level of '60' might indicate knock, implying that anything lower should be okay. I had my PFC mapped by JGM on 97 RON - but use V-Power 99. Typically my max knock readings are low- to mid-30's on WOT/high load, which I unsderstand is 'normal' for my 93 WRX. If it were to read, say, anywhere between 40-60 (e.g for stale fuel or 95 RON 'emeregency' fills), would it be actually knocking then? :wonder: Or is that quoted '60' figure just plain pony? :confused: the knock reading 60 limit they mention in the apexi manual is a bit pony to use your term.. if you look the manual is probably for a civic or similar.. every engine varies slightly and every type of pfc varies from the others.. Yes the higher numbers on lesser fuel is det.. the higher the number the worse it is. |
Okay Simon thanks.
Is there a definite max knock 'number' for my car then (93 WRX saloon, mapped for Esso 97, running V-Power 99), before it actually IS detting e.g. 30, 33, 36, or whatever?:confused: Or is it only an estimated 'area' e.g. between, say, 30 to 40 (don't know :wonder:) P.S. Yeah, you were right - that '60' was from either the English-translated Civic, or Integra, manual... Although it does state the same 60 figure in the Jap-language Impreza one too! :( |
I doubt whether there is a definite number, joz.
What are the numbers you see whilst the mapper listens with detcans and pronounces it safe? Take that as your safe number, and look out for any deviation from that. Mine shows 7-8 routinely, and about 11 under hard use. It's very consistent. Zak described it as 'quiet as a mouse' as he removed his detcans. Simon - this is the STi6 RA Lim that you mapped when it belonged to Andrew in Caldicote :thumb: Zak didn't remap it, he just did a quick check after fitting a wideband for me. Andy |
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