New engine or rebuild??
 

New here, but need big help, as feeling well down...

Three weeks ago I bought My 5th Impreza. I was chuffed as i had paid what seemed a good price - '96 imported Wagen, 4 years in the country with every piece of paper history, careful mature owner etc, 65k miles, £3.5. He had covered just 9K miles in the 4years.

Took it to my usual mechanic who did some needed work (new grooved discs, checked the timing belt, etc). The day I had it back it developed the dreaded clatter from big-ends/crank...:brickwall

My mechanic had needed to put some fuel into the car, which he put 2 galls of super unleaded into an empty tank, which the car covered 45miles with - a blast down the motorway and some pottering/odd full throttle use.

I've always used Optimax with a booster in imports I've owned previously and i think using 'normal' fuel may have been a factor. Perhaps this highlighted an already weak area...?

Anyway, I don't know what is involved with a bottom end rebuild cost wise. Question for you guys is do I source a warranted used engine (eBay £1200), or go for a rebuild. Or, as my GF suggests sell as S or Repair and cut my losses?

Which is the best way to go?

Thanks in advance

Question probably as old as engines ;)

I'd say - rebuild, on new, selected by you parts. The best - performance parts, forged etc. Rebuild is a good opportunity to build stronger engine.

Buying used engine is always kind of Russian roulette. Even if you have warranty, it's always a hassle with taking engine again out of the car if something's wrong, looking for another one etc.

Rebuild is certainly more expensive - but as above, I would treat it as opportunity to upgrade. Anyway if rebuild by a right person.
It's not a rocket science for a mechanic, but require some pedantic work with details.

Anyway that's the way I've chosen and I would again, if I needed (knocking the wood ;))

Yes, i suppose this question must be as old as engines...:)

Why have you had to rebuild yours?

I can't seem to get a good idea of how much a rebuild is going to cost.

I phoned one Subaru garage and he was talking of £1000 labour to take out and put back in! (I have a mechanic who can do this for me cheaper as it goes). The garage was then saying after new pistons, con rods, re-bore, heads skim, etc, I was looking at £3.5K

Quite a depressing thought :confused:

Another story - probably as old as Imprezas engines ;) - main bearing :)

It took also one of rods and shaft - so I decided to get forged rods and new v9 shaft for my v5 sti (they're pretty similar, that of v9 should be a bit stronger)

The cost of work depends of course on the garage - but be aware, try not too look only at the price, but also at the reputation. As I said, however it's not a rocket science - rebuild, especially of performance engine, require some accuracy, some good care...

The rest of costs depends how much mess happend to your engine inside - anyway I wouldn't go for oem parts. Again, look if necessary for some stronger, forged parts (I used Eagle forged rods - maybe not an extra league, but strong enough), new piston rings - I don't know how strong are pistons in your version, but maybe it's also good time to replace them with stronger ones? ACL stronger bearings, new oil pump if necessary (might be good investment anyway if yours is old), new timing belt with pulleys, tensioners etc.

Of course, indeed, these are costs - but you pay for something. After such a rebuild you could start thinking about higher power with some additional changes (like I guess injectors, bigger turbo etc.)

However it's always matter of money - you may want to get it just fixed :)
But getting Subaru I found it's never strong enough, if you know what I mean :)
I always have new ideas what to do, what to change, what to improve etc.
The only problem is... money ;)

Luckily I have a friend who helps me with work - so the bigger costs for me are parts costs. On engine rebuild I spent anyway something around 3000e? Which wasn't so bad anyway I think.

Good luck anyway!

This all depends on what your after. If your looking at a standard replacement,not gaining more power,then a recon standard engine from a reputable engine shop would be fine(Api).
But,if your planning big power in the future,then a rebuild with better internals is a better option.
Trouble is the second will cost more than the car!
Give Api a call on 01926 614522,and discuss the options,you won't speak to a more helpful engine shop.
If your rebuiding yourself,then this is different!

Mit

Go for a 'cheap' option of an Ebay engine or an unheard of garage and you'll run the risk of being at square one again with a knackered engine. Go the expensive route (API for instance and you'll have not much change from £3k) and you'll have a warranted engine and a car that shouldn't blow anytime soon. But, the car won't be worth anything more than you paid for it.

Personally I think you paid well over the odds for the car in the first place so you must have really wanted it, I doubt you'll get much for it as salvage. This being the case you'll probably be better off with a reputable rebuild if you're going to keep the car.

if your going to rebuild it yourself it makes it a lot cheaper and i quite enjoyed doing mine. It does take a fair bit of time though It took me 1 day getting the engine out, 1 day stripping it down and the best part of a week putting it back together again and then 1 more day to put it back in. It was my first rebuild though so prob took a bit longer than normal. If your crank's shot then it will cost £800-£1000 using your old pistons and rods

Don't think that really helps him at the mo!:wonder:

If you quote me then do the full quote and don't add punctuation where there wasn't.

"Personally I think you paid well over the odds for the car in the first place so you must have really wanted it, I doubt you'll get much for it as salvage."

Taken in context you'll see why I started the paragraph in that way.

True,but he's trying to find the best way of fixing the problem,not to be told he's paid 'well over the odds',especially when it's about to cost him more!

Jesus, I was saying he paid too much for the car so he obviously wanted it quite bad, ergo probably go for a rebuild.

If he'd have paid a lot less for the car it would have made sense to just scrap it.

Makes my car at £5k on Ebay seem like the bargain of the century :)

Thanks for all your replies. I don't feel so much in at the deep end now - just have the sickening realisation it really is as bad as i thought :eek:

I'll certainly give API a call tomorrow as I'm thinking rebuild.

The taxi driver last night said Insurance job it - must say that idea does have a certain attractiveness

My STI let go a couple of days after I bought it - I found Andy at Special Scooby's in Colchester who rebuilt mine for £1800. It's still going strong today two years down the line.

I decided to remove and re-fit the engine myself to keep the costs down - it's not that difficult if you take your time.

A rebuild needn't cost £3000!

Normal fuel wouldn't have caused your big end to go. That was an oil starvation issue most likey caused by the oil pump pressure relief valve sticking.

A rebuild would be fairly straight forward and more future proof than buying a second hand engine.

Cost wise there's not alot in it. A crank will cost you about £350, bearings about £160. you'll need a new oil modine and its probably best to invest in a modified oil pump. An engine gasket set will be about £280 including the head gaskets then you're just looking at labour.

£1800 is a very good price. If you're handy with the spanners its not that hard to do it yourself. I knew nothing when I did my first one four years ago.
I've never looked back since. I've saved myself a fortune since then.

Not much help but ive gotta agree with scoobynutta, You have not paid a "good price" I sold my 95 wagon which had had a full api engine rebuild for £2900 2 years ago. I recently brought a 93 wrx with 37000 miles for £2000 on the road fresh from Japan. Id cut your losses if i were you.

Regarding an insurance claim, I assume the taxi driver was thinking of it getting stolen somehow, or catching fire etc. Apart from the obvious risks associated with this like fraud you'll lose your excess and the remainder of your policy most likely. Also I wouldn't hold out too much in the way of their valuation, book trade in value I can't really see you getting much over £1.5k.

I'd say either do the rebuild yourself or by a competent mate or scrap it. The likes of API WILL cost UPWARDS of £2.7k.

Advice in this situation is always the same: Get the job done right, pay once.

APi will do it right.

Ns04

I've got to say the Insurance suggestion had only a fleeting attractiveness when coming from the pub Saturday night & in the slight hangover daze of Sunday morning...

Some very good news: A local engine services who has a great reputation will come out and recover the car, take the engine out and rebuild it for an estimated £1200. That's with a warranty too :luxhello:

£1200?! Thats cheap,if his reputations good then rip his arm off!! Just make sure the 'estimated' price doesn't end up being a lot more. Find out what parts the £1200 will cover,as chances are you may need a crank or other bits.

Yes, he said phone me back if you want to go ahead, but there was no hesitation! He's coming out in the morning to collect it, said he'll keep me updated on the progress - golden

I've just phoned my mate again and he says there's no better bloke around to do the job. Other people say the same too

Eco this mate. Prices that sound cheap, can end up incurring a lot of "unexpected extras" Make sure you get a itemised list of exactly what is being done and what parts are being used! Also, do make sure this garage are Subaru experts, you'll be surprised at the number of rebuilds that feature bits from a legacy etc... and are just doomed from the outset.

£1200 is very cheap!

Ns04

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to cheap. Make sure he doesn't regrind the crank - ask him what he intends to do with the crank. ONLY EVER new every time.

So lets see:

labour to take out and refit at 1/2 APi price £275.00
labour to strip and clean and build at 1/2 APi price £300.00
Gasket set £257.00
mains and big ends £120 - £ 140
Crank £350.00
piston rings £125.00
Cam belt £50.00
Oil & filter £50.00
Antifreeze £35.00

ANd ?????

So far £1562.00 + VAT

Be careful.

David APi

Agents for:
Simtek, the most exciting new Ecu for years
Buddy Club exhausts
Scoobysportexhausts
Eibach suspension
AP Racing brakes and clutches
And of course; the well known APi Performance Exedy organic clutch

www.apiengines.com

01926 614333

My bottom end has gone on my WRX. I have been quoted £2400 all in for all new parts and a few other bits and a new clutch fitted. The crank that was in mine has been binned and I have got a new one. I would suggest a rebuild as I thought about another engine, but like people have said its a risky chance.
Ring about but make sure you don't get ripped off. API seem to be a big hit on here, I have had mine done by a guy who works on subaru's near me and he is very reasonable.

I'd ask around a lot more about this guys reputation before getting it picked up. This is the most knowledgeable forum for garages etc yet you've not mentioned who this garage is. If it's in the M25 area I'd advise extreme caution. If you know the guy personally and know for sure he does this work day in day out and had customer feedback measured in reams then go for it, just confirm that £1200 is the final price all included.

I've been down the reputable route and the cowboy one and believe me if you're getting a garage to do the work then always pick the reputable and known garage, it will be cheaper in the long run.

Good luck if you've fallen on your feet here with this garage.

FWIW API did my rebuild and I'm contented with the work they have done and David doesn't send recommendation cheques in the post for replies like these mores the pity ;)

We never did send out cheques. BUT, you do qualify for free bacon butties forever on a Saturday :luxhello: and free coffee any time you call here.

I fund that out of my own pocket and some Saturdays the bill is 40 quid for the butties:cry: ...................... Worth it though, as word-of-mouth is my strongest advertising medium.

David APi

So true
<------------


Andy

I can vouch for API, they are not the cheapest BUT you WILL get a pukka engne that will last. Also if you should ever have a problem in the warranty period like I did he will put it right no questions asked.

Well, there was some confusion about the vehicle we were talking about when the figure of £1200 was discussed (my bad)

Now the field has been leveled the rebuild sounds a similar price to what others are saying.

Crank only and it's going to be £1,250 plus 4 - £500 labour and other bits (he mentioned oil for one). If he sees anything else he's not happy with he phones me up with a view to changing out.

Complete rebuild with rods and pistons £1850 + 4-5. Also he said while he's doing the job he'll give me some other upgrade options to think about.

As for the builder's reputation, I have no hesitation. His name is Shaun and he owns Speedway Garage of Cradley, West Midlands.

This is my 5th Impreza now. I've had allsorts from the older typr R (perhaps my favorite) to a new V9. It seems this oil starvation is a time bomb. Is the dreaded knock sooner or later academic or is it due to factors such as bad servicing (poor quality oil etc)? In other words can it be definitely prevented (don't want to hijack my own thread here)

I know Sean from Speedway well - he is OK.:thumb:

Be careful if you get into an argument with him though; he is a champion bare knuckle fighter...........:eek2:

David APi