Ap used wilwood for the design I believe?? Not 100% but then again your an arse so get some proper brakes from quick fit.

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

If your gonna get some.....come pick me up..I am off work and so bored! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif

Are the wilwood 6 pots new? I considered wilwood 4 pots a few months ago, but went instead for the AP's. Been very happy with them, except for the particular pads that I got with the set. When they got to half wear, the metal backing on the back of the pads started wearing on the bells. AP aren't too good at helping when you have a problem - it took me over a month to get replacement pads from scoobymania and AP (I'll post more details when I can).

What price are the wilwood 6 pots?

Sorry I know its the wrong Forum but looking for quick replies! Thinking about getting one of these kits this week, can someone please tell me which is better cus im in a dilemma?

Cheers harj....

Harj.
Do you really need to ask this question? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
The Wilwoods may be good, but they are not designed for road use as they have no dust seals. The British winter will make mince meat of the internals. AP have never, and I'm sure would never use any Wilwood designs. They are streets ahead of anyone in the world when it comes to brakes, period.

Trig.
It sounds like you were sent 51mm deep pads instead of the correct 46mm. The 51mm pads catch on the bells when half-worn. You should get new bells too.

Stef.

Sorry, I must be going silly in my old age......

AP are streets ahead in brake design. Guess again, what about Brembo and Alcon.

But hey what the hell do I know!

Dan

Danny.
What about Brembo and Alcon?
AP are the world leaders in brake technology, and that fact is undisputed by all the other companies. The pinnacle showcase for technology is of course F1. Guess who supplies 90% of the grid? Hmmm....I wonder. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
Still, as Brembo officially own AP Racing I guess they can call themselves world leaders now!

Stef.

Stef, or Trig

The AP web page shows the Scoob pads as being 50.3mm deep, are you saying this is wrong? I saw the damage it can do to Trig's car!

Hmmm...

Well, I have no idea about BrandX beats, BrandY, etc... but...

The very best brakes (IMHO) by a country mile, that I have ever driven on a road car, were the ones fitted to Chuckster's 22B, which were Alcon (I think). The combination of feel, power, consistency, control, etc was staggering.

AP's are definitely great brakes though...

The thing is, we are really talking about degrees of excellence here. Do you realy need to have BrandX because it is 3% better than BrandY?

I would have thought that any of the top brands would be able to produce brakes that would cope with anything we can throw at them on the road / track day.

A lot depends on the pad, and an aweful lot depends on how they are set-up / run-in...

The biggest problem I guess is that they are expensive and it is impossible to test drive them before you buy them.

I may try to arrange a shoot out for ScoobyNews, of brand new brake kits fitted to the same car, using the same make of pads (if this is feasible), bed them in, as per the manufacturers recomendations (or an exact agreed method which we will use for all of them), and then test them to death at Brunters / Dono / MIRA / etc.

Cheers

Simon

Greg.
50mm is correct if you buy the off-the-shelf AP kit for the Scoob from AP, but not if the kit is from Scoobymania. The correct pad number for this kit is CP3215D46 (as actually stated under the pad in the diagram!!!),where the D46 is obviously the pad depth. Someone somewhere is making a serious boo-boo.

Simon.
Agreed, once you get to the top level there is little to choose between them. The topic was asking about AP vs Wilwood though.
To me, pad choice is the most important factor anyway. You can put poo pads in an AP kit, and you'll get poo braking. Put top pads in a lesser kit, and you'lll get better braking.
The reason Chucky's car felt so good with the Alcons was probably because they use the Ferodo DS3000 pads in the kit. Tese are the best pads I've ever used on track in terms of feel and performance, but they are simply to hard on the disc. I wore my disc the same at one track day using DS3000's as I had during SEVEN events using other materials!!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/eek.gif There will obviously always be a trade-off somewhere.
Put DS3000 pads in any top brake kit and I thin you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between them.

Stef.

[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 02 January 2001).]

Cheers Stef,

So there appears there IS a difference from the Scoobymania kit to the others, so the question is why the difference?

cheers,

Greg

Stef,
I'll be sorting mmy brakes out as soon as I can, and will let you know the exact difference between the pads I have.

The pads are 46mm or 51mm depending on whether you have a kit for 16 or 17inch wheels.

As for the 50.3 on the website, I'm not sure.

Stef,
Are you 100% sure that the kit from scoobymania is different from the kit that AP are supplying to other retailers (Mike/Gavin if there is a difference, could you tell us exactly what it is) - I know that the kit was developed between AP and Scoobymania, but I understand that this kit is now the same for all retailers (bar different choice of pads or fluid or something)

Trig.
If it was the same then those pads would fit wouldn't they? The pads you need for the 16" rim Scoobymania kit are CP3215D46 which is different to the pad recommended for the AP-direct kit. I don't know the exact reason for the difference, you'll need to ask Mike.

Stef.



[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 02 January 2001).]

Like Stef said above, (and to keep it on topic), unless you run the same pads, you can't compare. The pads are obviously a major element in what is happening.

I believe numerous people have reported some expensive side effects with the Alcon kits (anyone care to elaborate)?

Trig.

The 16" kit should have D46 profile pads.

Stef,
I haven't yet got to the bottom of why my pads were causing a problem. If they were for the 17inch kit, that would explain it, but the difference looked too small for that to be the reason. All of these pads are of a slightly different shape, and it's possible that these particular pads can cause problems. We put the original pads back on at brands, with the thickest on my problem wheel, and although I've been pottering about since, I haven't had a problem with them. I was going to change the pads at christmas, but crashed instead (it wasn't the brakes fault). I don't think they could have been fitted incorrectly in the first case, as the pads just drop in place.
I don't know the part numbers, but when scoobymania were trying to source some new pads for me, they were expecting AP to send them to me direct - I can't imagine that AP have some pads that they only supply to scoobymania, which suggests they take the same pads.
Also, I don't have any documentation telling me that my replacement pads should be any different than for a normal 16inch AP kit.

Ah, hello Mike.
Yes I know, hence my post at 5:01 - but as you know, I did have some trouble with the pads that came as part of my 16" kit, as the back of the pad wore the bell on my near side wheel when they got to half wear. I will compare the pads with those you've sent me as soon as I get the car in for body repairs.

If you want a quick answer from someone who has experience of both why dont you pick up the phone and call me you knobber! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/rolleyes.gif

I am in the fortunate position to have both AP Racing 4pots (from my old car) and Prodrive/Alcons on my P1. I am torn between the two braking systems as they are both truely fantastic.

As simon says above...we are talking degrees of excellence here. AP have their reputation for F1 and touring car...Alcon for rally (and maybe BTCC too I don't know too much about them).

I am concerned about the amount of debris coming from the Alcons right now...I need to get a check to determine which pads are in use (either DS2000 or DS3000). I suspect my brakes have DS2000s fitted as they bite nice when cold. There have been numerous reports of wheel enamle destruction (anyone care to comment) which I am keen to not have happen.

I would say the initial pedal feel in the alcons is better/different to the APs....but again...this could be down to pad choice. My APs had std. AP Japan pads...absolutely fine. only managed 1 trackday on them but both pad and disk wear was excellent...

I will have to sell one of these brake kits soon...but I am not in a position to say which until I have conducted more testing.

I think if you basically buy brake kit AP, Alcon, Brembo, Tarrox or ANother you will be happy. These kits are designed to do the job...1300+ pounds is buying you some serious stopping power

I'll keep you posted.

Ian.

Stef.. Totally agree. You are probably right about the pads being the major cause of the fantastic feel, etc.

Cheers

Simon

Has anybody had any experiance with these people