996 C4, Cayman S or 997 C2S?
 

All in the same price range, test drove all of them today, can't make my mind up at all. Any informed thoughts from people with experience of them would be welcomed. I'll ignore comments from dreamers who haven't got a clue :D

My thoughts

Cayman S- taught and neutral, compliant suspension due to PASM, nowhere near powerful enough. Nice interior but these cars are so sparsely specced that 8-10K's worth of extras seems a must to me. Steering feel fantastic and I felt like I could lean on it hard.


996 C4-2002 car,very high spec, almost every option. Brakes felt lacking after the Cayman. First modern-ish 911 I've driven. Sports exhaust sounded awesome and it felt a lot quicker than 50ish BHP over the Cayman. Even though it was 4WD it still had that 'bobbly' feeling I remember from the 964 and 993. I felt that although I didn't have the same confidence in it as the Cayman there would be more enjoyment to be had out of mastering this car.

997 C2S- full options, sports exhaust which didn't sound anywhere near as good as the 996. Much less dated interior than the 996, felt much quicker and had far less of that traditional 911 feel. Felt this was a bit less challenging than the 996 which is weird as it is the purer car being RWD. At the same price-ish (7-9K more than the 996) I can't help feeling this car is real value.


I have no idea which one to go for, the test drive really just confused matters. So the question is which would be best for you and why?

Cayman unless you do a lot of hoofing around in wet weather then the C4 996

Meself would be in an air cooled goodness called an 993 Turbo 4 :D

Anyone else think the Cayman isn't actually very nice looking ?

My goodness thats quite a handfull for a single day

Spent 5 hours driving and talking Porsches, it wasn't nearly enough.

The Cayman isn't the prettiest but to be honest it could look like Lisa Riley as long as it still gave as good a ride.:D

have you seen this kit Porsche Cayman S gets a new GTsport skin « Auto Review very nice

Have you considered none of the above :D

Personally, only one I would consider is 996 turbo but appreciate this would be a much older car (excluding 997 turbo which I assume is out of budget)

I went down this road, and considered ordering a 997 C2S before I saw sense.

The 911 is rear-engined. You'll always be aware of that when you're flinging it around on a tight, damp and twisty road, and you'll never bond 100% with the car in my opinion. 4wd has no place on a sports car, so that's definitely out too.

The Cayman's performance is pegged back to avoid competing with the 911. No LSD, not enough power. Not ideal.

If Porsche came out with a mid-engined 911-sized car, as I think they'll eventually have to, I'm sure it'd be fabulous. In the meantime, so long as you don't pay too much for one, the Cayman or Boxster is probably the one to go for.

NACRO

The best car finaincially will be the 997 C2S.

I can't get to grips with the 996 looks at all and I preferred the 993 to drive to be honest.

For me, it would be the Cayman as the purest handling of the three* and that is more important than ultimate power IMO.

*caveat - I've not driven the 997C2S, just the C4S.

I really like the Cayman - proper mid engined car rather than a vehicle with a "wrong" layout.
Apparently Porsche have been struggling to shift them so you might be able to haggle.

I think the 996 is too flabby both visually and dynamically. The 997 is lovely but surely a lot more expensive?

Isn't 4WD a bit...well.....gay?

Someone said that to me once - 5 minutes later he stuffed his MR2 MK1 into the armco coming off a wet roundabout. i was indeed in my awd safe and fine and dandy:)

I think 4WD in a 911 is pretty much essential to avoid death.
That's why the GT2 is so lethal - I'd much rather have the "normal" turbo.

997 C2S for me please.

997 C4s is lovely, not had a go in the C2. the Cayman S was nice but felt under powered if only they put the 3.8 in it,

What rubbish.

The GT2 is not a lethal bad handling car, it the person who is in control of the right foot.

I'm just glad manufacturers still make high performance rear wheel drive cars without driver aids.

I can't afford one, but I'd love to have a go at trying to tame one....part of the appeal of driving.

I have to say the Techart Cayman looks awesome! I was out in a 996 Turbo the other day and they are a perfect supercar. You can sit in traffic and tootle along all day like in a "normal" car. But then when you get to an open road all hell breaks loose and you realise you are in a fast fast car:notworthy

I don't know where people get this idea that Porsche can't sell Caymans apart from forums like this. If you order one you have to wait 6 - 7 months.
Also there are not that many used Caymans available. Currently there are 26 for sale on Pistonheads as opposed to 162 997s and 348 996s.

They are quicker than the 911 C2 and only slightly less quick than the 911 C2S and they handle better than both.

Thanks for the comments, it's given me some more things to think about.

Oddly I didn't find what Charles said above to be the case- the Cayman S felt a lot slower than the 997 C2. The handling and steering were fantastic however, I can't recall driving a car with power assistance that had such feedback and a direct, connected feel. The lack of grunt is an issue though, I'm driving a remapped S3 at the moment and it feels a lot quicker than the Cayman did mid range.

What Im currently thinking is go for the 'Design' edition of the Cayman S which is well specced and likely to hold it's value (if a bit Gareth Cheeseman). I love black cars so one of these fits the bill other than the power issue. My other line of thought is to go and test an older 996 Turbo but the extra running costs are a bit scary if I'm honest.

Rather than claimiing up front that you can drive a specced up one with bicicle tyres on the back like some people do! :rolleyes:


I think you ARE doing the right thing. :thumb:

-Assessing each cars by how they feel with your hands and Bum on the seat. After all the enjoyment is in driving it, (That is what bought ME to scoobies 6years ago anyway), rather than just saying you own one.




Cue the normal Blah! Blah! about Nurburgring and how a pedal cart can beat a modded one around the track with them driving. :D

Charles - only repeating what a relative about to stick a deposit down on a Cayman S was told - by the dealer!!

Davyboy - Well I'm sure you are a driving god and we'd all love to "tame" a GT2 but for most of the time, I'd go for a 911T - A black 997T passed me last night at silly speed - stunning.

Guys all I can say is that I have driven a 993 turbo bodied 911 (the best looking model I think) and it was a great car but a bit old inside (as you would expect given it was a late 90's car) but when I spent the day in the company of a new cayman s I was blown away! It has similar acceleration stat's to my STi PPP but delivers it way better.... smooth and constant power :luxhello: I got the impression that this would be the case all the way to it's top end but I did not have a private track to test that theory on. I am pretty sure that this car would outpace my car around any dry circuit, not only that but the figures are probably obtainable for your average driver to whereas you need to be right on it to get the scooby to achieve its best. The chap who says they are slow is misguided, they deliver the power much better than say a blown 2.0lt unit and are as fast as some of the 911 models. Porsche resisted the urge to increase its performance as it would then compete directly with the 911. The good news is that now that they are making the boxter s with the 3.4lt engine... the only way is up for the cayman s and the chassis can definately handle much more power... good things to come me thinks. :notworthy

The grip was incredible and the car felt very well balanced and that 3.4lt engine sounds just sublime whining away immediately behind your ears :thumb:
The car is of supreme quality and fabulous to sit in, surprisingly comfortable over long distances and a reasonable amount of luggage space given its design

I am planning to buy a boxter s early next year but if I could rustle up the extra dosh I would have the cayman s :norty:

Cayman S is the best overall car IMHO having driven one like you, the steering feel and handling are sublime :)

It is well known in motoring circles that the Cayman is struggling, Porsche expected to take a chunk of both new buyers and people trading from Boxsters, hasn't happened. Porsche are a low producer and have focused on Boxster/911 (in the US the 911 has sold mega) hence still potential waits for Cayman.

For me I would have a punt at getting a deal on a Cayman, had a go in a 997C4S and was totally underwhelmed. OK it went fast and was as fast as I wanted when it came to cornering but no pure enjoyment/pleasure ......... I would guess that on the road the limits are so high that you dont get anywhere near them (a bit like an Impreza in many ways) so to me lacked pure driving pleasure albeit stunningly effective.

You'd not really buy a GT2 for the road though.

The 911 Turbo makes a great road car, the GT2 really doesn't.

Well I'd want one for the road - Cornwall has the some total of naff all tracks but miles and miles of perfect driving roads.

Of course, I'd love to try a GT2 out - In the dry with big run off areas.

If I could afford it, 997 any day. Borrowed a 997C2S a few weeks ago, came to the conclusion that it was all the car that anyone would ever need. Drove like a Focus doing the day-to-day stuff, but drives like a real supercar when given some stick. Pretty awesome, and surely there is no better all round performance car?

Worlds apart from any previous 911 I have had decent driving experience of (pre '89, and 964, both of which I disliked).

Not driven Caymen or 996, so won't attempt to comment or compare. But I have never read any article that states a 996 was a better car than a 997. And from memory, a brief drive of a later Boxster S confirmed that it was very good, but not memorable. Caymen= bit more of the same, or am I wrong?

997 it is ;)

Yes but a similarly specced 997 C2S would cost you 20 grand more than a Cayman S. Is it that much better?

This is what Walter Rohrl had to say about the Cayman S in the Porsche line up.

"Walter Rohrl is instrumental in Porsche's development program, spending countless hours lapping the famous Nurburgring circuit in Germany to fine tune dynamics and performance. Toby Hagon talks to the rally ace about the Cayman (late 2005).

Q: What were your thoughts when you heard Porsche wanted to do a hard-top version of the Boxster?

WR: I thought it would be very interesting because I thought we could get much more (body) stiffness, and I was already happy with the Boxster S. My first impression was that this car would be like a race car, it makes it so precise in the steering.

Q: What is the strongest attribute of the Cayman?

WR: Undoubtedly its (body) stiffness and agility in going from one corner to the next, a combination of corners.

It's a question of the weight balance, it makes it very easy and very precise to change direction.

Q: Other than the ($1 million-plus) Carrera GT, do you think the Cayman is the sportiest Porsche available?

WR: Not in terms of outright power, but from the feeling of the car and the impression when you're driving it then, yes, I think it is the most sporty Porsche.

Q: Was the Cayman a difficult car to develop?

WR: No problems at all. From the beginning, we were so surprised - it's so neutral over a wide, wide range. Even if you drive it over the limit, it doesn't feel like it (will misbehave).

Q: Was it difficult to make it quicker than the Boxster S but not quite as quick as the 911?

WR: No, not at all. First of all we had an engine with more power and a body with more stiffness that ensured it was a little bit quicker than the Boxster S. But we were a little bit surprised how near we were to the 911 (in performance). I remember a funny thing (with the Cayman development).We were at Nurburgring, it was my first lap and I did 8 minutes, 11 seconds - my first lap! But that was a car with (optional) 19-inch wheels and ceramic brakes, so it was a bit quicker. A normal (unmodified) Cayman S will do it in about 8.20, whereas a 911 takes about 8:02 or so.

Q: How hard do you have to be driving to get a time like that? Are you on 10-10ths?

WR: Yep. I feel like I'm on holidays to do 8.10 (in a 911). If you want to do 8.05 you have to be absolutely switched on.

Q: What do you think will be the biggest competition for the Cayman S?

The new (yet-to-be-released) Audi TT, for sure, and maybe the Z4 coupe, if they build it. Then the current 350Z, but these cars are really all on another level. The 350Z is a nice car, but as soon as you have driven the Cayman S it is a different car. The Cayman S is like the perfect solution to a sports car.

Q: On a normal road, is the Cayman S quicker than a 911?

WR: If it is a very twisty road, I believe yes. In second and third gear corners then I feel it is more precise - it is so, so competent. The only problem is that the traction control has to work much more than the 911, because the inside (rear) wheel wants to lift more, so it slows you down. If you push hard, you feel the car hesitate because of the traction control. That's because in the Cayman S the weight (of the engine) is in front of the (rear) axle, whereas in the 911 it is behind (the rear axle).

Q: What Porsche do you drive?

I have a 911 Carrera 4S. But I am just waiting for the new (911) Turbo. I always want four-wheel-drive - that is the most important thing. I always say a car without four-wheel-drive cannot be a perfect car; if I have four wheels I have to use them, for braking, for acceleration, for everything."

I would buy the 997 myself.

The 996 will soon be looking out of date and in respect of the Cayman, people might say "ohh look at that Caymen, guess he could't afford the 911...."

Just my thoughts.