More Police powers - for the war on terror
 

Like that's REALLY going to help :rolleyes: *waves goodbye to civil liberties*

I hate the feckin rozzers now, just imagine what those jumped up space cadets will be like with this new power to stop and bother you :rolleyes:

FFS..

The reason we have 6 terrorist suspects running around the country now is because hyper-paranoid "civil liberties" fcukwits think a criminals rights are more important than an innocent persons.

A Police Officer SHOULD be able to stop and talk to anyone - the detection and prevention of crime is part of their job after all - and thats pretty damn difficult if you can't stop and question anyone.

The only reason you have to be worried is if your gulity of something. If not, stop, give the police officer your name, appriciate that its to KEEP YOU SAFE, and don't be an arsehole about it.

Will this mean that they can stop and ask me the way??

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear. Right? Wrong.

Where do you draw the line and who ensures that the powers are not abused? Would you object to being stopped if you were out at a particular time or visiting a particular area? Should the police then be able to hold you without charge if you can't give a reasonable answer (whatever that may be)? Will you then be required to carry your ID card at all times? Will not having your ID card mean that you can be detained? We might as well go back to the Soviet era in Russia and Eastern Europe if you really believe the answer is yes.

Everything we see from the government at the moment is wrapped up in the terrorist arguement. Perhaps we should be asking ourselves how we got here in the first place?

Anyone can be suspected of anything. Suspicion does not equal evidence or proof.

so let me get this right, the extremists who have brought this war to our doorstep, they`ll only pick on bad people to attack? or can they pick on anyone indiscriminately?

Wrong. If you don't look "a bit muslimy" then you have nothing to fear. ;)

It's Blair who has brought this to our doorstep. Never forget that. :mad:

*****COULD BE CHARGED******

Which means nothing.

You can be charged with obstruction now, for giving false details, but it never happens.

Media bollox

As a Muslim who looks like one of those Bin Laadin scum bag dirty dogs (meaning I have a beard not a very long one but one all the same)...I do not really have a problem with good, honest police officers doing their job and protacting our society from scum whether Muslim or otherwise. However I do feel quite uncomfortable if I was stopped by an officer who had some underlying hatred for Muslims generally due to the evil act of murder carried out by a very evil and sick few. I sometimes worry about getting my life turned upside down just because of some poor intelligence or a huch that someone had or even a vendetta. I am like most people I have bills to pay and a family to look after and being falsely incarcerated for 28 days or however long would be pretty nasty and could easily ruin someones future career wise and life wise.

Anyway that is my view...as for checking me and my car for the sake of the safety of us all then it is cool with me...I am not one of those mouthy moron muslims you see on those pointless protest marches.

Thats spot on mate!!

You should only worry if youre doing wrong!!

They can pull me over anytime. Imagine have your car stolen, would you want the police to pull it then?

Totally agree. I would vote out about 75% of the "human rights" act which seems to protect everyone except victims of crime.

If only more people thought like you. :(

welcome to the police state..

cue the id card will help etc.... if your innocent you've nothing to fear et al...


your papers are not in order......:nono: :(:(


a few work camps in the country???


Mart

Okay - yeah, fine.

Disband the Police, the Security Services, the Military... Seeing as you obviously can't trust any of them..

I'll use an egg timer to see how long you survive...

One major problem at the moment is if we stop someone in the street (doing nothing wrong) they can refuse their details and we are powerless and have to let them go.

Now that person could be wanted on a warrant, could be Billy the Burglar, could have a curfew, could be a sex pest on bail conditions, ASBOS – you name it and we have to let them walk if they are not committing any offences at the time. Now the scum know this and they are getting away with murder. I can’t see anything wrong with giving your name and DOB when stopped – failing to do so would lead to an arrest until we can establish who they are. I don’t agree with necessarily fining people, but I believe we should be able to find out who they are.

Too right. As you said they are "doing nothing wrong" so they are free to get on with it without being bothered by the bib.

They're not getting away with anything. As you already said, they are "doing nothing wrong".

I see everything wrong with this. If I'm "doing nothing wrong" why should you care who I am? This is a free country and as a citizen of this country I'll walk in any public place I want, adhering to the laws of the land and expect not to be interrogated by the police. However, as soon as you see me transgressing that law, feel free to pull out the baton/taser/pepper spray. Tough action on law breakers, politeness to the law abiding.

Another empty law change, the criminals will just give false details.
Ah, I know - force everyone to carry and i.d. card and that problem is solved!

Genius :cuckoo:

Sorry, you may have misunderstood. The point is that you may be not be doing anything wrong when you are stopped, but you may have just committed a crime moments before. Or you may be wanted for a previous offence, wanted on a warrant etc etc.

A house may have been burgled where the suspect has been named. Now the suspect can walk away, knowing that if he is stopped around the corner, he can refuse his details and there is nothing we can do – technically.

But once you have a name and DOB there are other ways of proving identity

But that's not the same thing at all! If I'm walking near a crime scene, I expect to get questioned (and have been in the past!), that's just good police work. You have a reason to stop me. These new laws are to ensure that the police can stop anyone, for no reason and then sling them in a cell until they can think of one.

Which, although technically true.. IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

However, if you do not give your name to a Police Officer who asks, I do wonder what you have to hide. Your name is not an official state secret - although with some of the paranoia shown on this thread, I'm sure most of you have convinced yourselves that some uber-secret government agency is following you around and recording every telephone call you make already. :rolleyes:

Now that is straight out of Billy Boy's mouth, even if it is not quite word for word.

You may of course be an NL activist which would explain your general attitude when it comes to these kinds of policies.

If you are not, haven't you noticed all the things being put in place so that we can eventually be monitored in just about evey action we take? Do you really think you can trust politicians to have that sort of power in that they can if they wish accuse you of being a terrorist suspect and that they can therefore lock you up as in Guantanamo Bay with no rights of Habeas Corpus?
I can see the time ahead when you would only have to disagree with them to find that happening to you! Bit like the USSR really. They used to say that those who spoke the truth were loonies and locked them up in asylums! Funnily enough this lot have already suggested that the authorities should be allowed to lock someone up without the need to section them! :(

You had better wake up and see that our civil liberties and freedoms are slowly disappearing. It is the sort of thing that happens more and more quickly until all of a sudden it is too late to stop it. Do you really want to live under a future totally repressive government?

Felix,

Why the hell should you want to stop and question someone if they are minding their own business and have done nothing wrong? Who do you think you are to believe that you should have that right? You seem to be generating a mistaken sense of your own importance!

Les :(

What people seem to overlook (if, indeed, they ever actually understood this...) is that a limited gain in some respects can not ever justify the erosion of peoples freedom.

Not at all - I have to be careful how I word this - I am in the Army and have some significant insight into the issues surrounding this type of legislation and the 'problem' that it is trying to stop.

It is all very well the British public whining about how their "civil liberties" are being eroded, while their heads are shoved so far up their backsides they have NO concept of the very real threats that face their safety, and the amount of hard work and personal sacrifice many other British citizens (mainly civillian) make in order to provide the safety the rest of the population have.

This is not about politics for the security forces of this country - this is about preventing a handful of loonatics from killing the rest of the naive population.

Yet, those who are intrusted with keeping the rest of you in one bit are denied the legislation, methods and techniques they require to keep you safe; and critized for not knowing/preventing terrorist attacks.

If you want to see your "liberties" being protected, read the nonsense that is the Regulation of Investagatory Powers Act.

And never again question why the Police and Intelligence Agencies can't protect you.

If I'm going about my lawful business and a copper asks me for my name, why the hell should I tell him? Now if I fit the description of someone who's just mugged an old lady then fine, arrest me on suspicion etc. Otherwise, mind your own ....

Dave

Well said Dave.

I spent a very long time in the Services too and I also know what's what.

The reason we have these threats is the arrogant and irresponsible negligence of the authorities as well as their illegal international actions and I don't see why we should give them any more power over our personal freedoms.

The whining bit would come when they had total control over every aspect of our lives, except that we would risk permanent detention or worse if we were to complain!

Les

while i am all for stopping terrorism, and prob one of the most liberal people around in the issue, even i'm starting to think they may be going to far

mmm can you not use the existing reasonable suspicion to quiz/arrest people then or would that require too much justification on the paperwork side?

richie

But how do you do that for a warrant that’s been out for him for months. Or breaking injunctions, bails conditions, ASBO conditions. I can’t just arrest someone on suspicion of being on a warrant unless I know their name.

The amount of times that we see people who are ‘out of place’ in an area. Scum S***bags, call them what you will, wandering all night around an executive estate. Now if you come home to see one of these legging it out of your garage with your power tools. Would you be happy to discover that these same scumbags were sighted on the estate all night – they are both wanted for other crimes, warrants, they have court bail conditions not to come onto the estate – but because when they were initially spotted by the police, they refused to give their details, so the police let them walk….

Are we not here to prevent crime………..and all for people just telling us who they are

Firstly i dont live on an 'executive' estate.

Secondly the fact that they are out of place on the estate and a crime has been commited isnt that probable cause/reasonable grounds to arrest/detain, given that in your example you suspect them for breach of bail conditions?

Just wondering if there is any definition of a minimum standard for reasonable grounds written down in legislation?
I just dont see how much difference these extra powers will make in the real world?
Richie