FP Green/Red vs MD321T Turbo opinions
 

I am interested in a standard fitment turbo for a strong 2.5 build with a target of 450/450 road car. I want the turbo to spool as quickly as possible and there seem to be great examples of cars with the lateral MD321T on this forum achieving just that right now, what I want to know is how do the american FP turbo's stack up against the lateral in terms of BHP/torque and also spool.
thanks
will

Will - I'd say you would be taking a risk buying a turbo from the states that is unproven - might save you lots of £££ given the current exchange rate, but the MD321T is proven in the UK and mappers really like it too :D:D:D I know as I have one :D:D:D

Yep as Terry says, >> and I have one , 500/540

Don't know if unproven is the correct word. Mike @ Scoobymania sells these. Ask him what he thinks of them.

Don't get me wrong, the MD series is AWESOME ( NOT an overstatement ) but let the others at least be acknowledged, be it good or bad!

Russell

The FP Red is suppose to be VERY laggy from what ive heard. And think the FP Green is more or less the same as a TD06-49 ??

On a recent test our spec FP Red out spooled a slightly smaller bolt-on ball bearing turbo by nearly 500rpm :thumb:

We are back to back testing both the Red and Green (same car, same day) during the last week of May. (BTW the highest figure we have had so far on the Green is 517BHP).

Where abouts in Gloucestershire are you mate?

I'm having Alan Bell's old TD06-49 fitted to my 2.2 wagon next week at API. I'll let you know how it gets on.

Alan tells me it is a good turbo, but not as good his MD321T, but I'm sure it'll be more than enough for me.

Dave

for now Dave ? :)

If 517bhp is the best the Green can do then what is the red suppose to do ?. Seems to good to be true for a bolt on turbo that I thought was based on the TD06-49, but ill have to take your word for it and accecpt ive made a big mistake on the FP Green and its capabilities :eek:

Yeah handling and then brakes will be in need of a good overhaul Mike.

Have you still got the P1? I saw it was for sale a while back.

Dave

Not a million miles from you! Live in the longlevens area of gloucester. Would be very interested in knowing how you get on with that TD06 in your wagon.

Dave,
I've just checked your car out and realised its my ultimate scooby. I've curently got a 1993 wagon which I've been experimenting on for 2 and a half years now modding bits here and there. I'm keeping my eye out for a sti6 wagon from japan and eventually want to swap all of the good bits from my current wagon over to it.
Very envious of that wagon, it looks a minter:thumb:
Just out of interest are you running a standard gearbox in it?

Will

Yes Dave ....still have the P1:)....cant seem to find a car to replace it (performance per £ wise )
I have a MD321T sitting in the garage waiting to be fitted , just waiting for the 2.5 to be builts and the six speeder box .

Still running the standard box for now - if and when it packs in I'll be looking for a UK 6 speed box.

Dave

maybe mike should confirm what platform car that was achieved on, it *might* not have been a subaru.. ;)

Looking at your web site, I'm guessing it's VW 20 valve based ? ;)


Mark.

Hi Bill :)

We can confirm it *might* not of been on a Subaru ;)


Back to the back to back testing:

The SM FP Green made 460bhp/410ftlb

The SM FP Red made 520bhp/440ftlb.

We also tested a new configuration (should fill the gap between the Green and Red) which made 480bhp/450ftlb :thumb:


Cheers
J.

FP Green - VW/Audi 1.8T 5v turbo unit
 

517bhp 378lbft on 1800cc 5v turbo SEAT Ibiza Cupra
On first fitment it achieved 481bhp on 2.2bar boost peak, 2bar @ 8krpm

changed intake manifold and throttle body from 59mm to 75mm and power rose to the 500+ figure from the increased airflow, same boost levels.

dyno of green before larger t'body intake manifold
http://badger-5.com/bin/Dyno/Badger%...0Run-small.jpg

dyno of green after larger t'body intake manifold
http://badger-5.com/bin/Dyno/007-R32-Dyno.jpg

Now run Fp red but not dyno'd it so no idea on power but there's clearly more.
8cm housing on red, have briefly run green in 8cm housing fo the red whilst red went away for repair. green was laggier but top end pull did seem to improve. (no figures to confirm this tho)

Now turned the unit down to 1.8 to 2.0 bar for reliability.
This is a race car competing in Castle Combe Saloon Car C'ship in Class B

Last saturdays meeting on the last minute re-fitted (mike!) Red, helped nett us our first class Win and 3rd overall.

things I have had to do is port the internal gate out further than supplied. Original hotside on green was not ported much at all and suffered boost creep. Once I ported it, that was cured. Had a few seizing issues on the 1.8T installation as its so hot down the back of the 1.8t engine with little or no airflow there. x3 housings all suffered seizure on the flapper and bush. 8cm housing from Red also did this after one race. Modified it for more clearance and so far x4 races on the thing still works ok. again ported the supplied housing beyond as supplied to prevent creep. Maybe a 1.8T related issue but I suspect not. Fp supply of exhaust housings have been inconsistent in finish in this respect. 8cm housing is much nicer flowing for wastegate, but could be improved upon with some minutes and a dremmel.

Power figures are on Shell V-power fuel, no additives, and no water injection running.

Where is the relevance of what a turbo will do on a non Subaru, when we are discussing what is best for a Subaru??

Subaru airflow dynamics are peculiar to a Subaru and what works on another car may not necessarly be any good at all on a Scoob.

Daveo's car was really good when we mapped it last week. I was impressed with the turbo and we did have a talk around how long the gearbox might last...... Certainly a very quick car now.

A very weird weakening of the AFR at exactly 3200 which had us beat as to what to do about it. JUST AT 3200; nowhere else, and chucking fuel in at 3,2 would just have made the immediate before and after areas VERY rich.

Got me and Pat stumped but didn't seem to affect performance at all just a bit of a 'slow' feeling at 3200.

David APi

Hang on a minute, have I missed something here...:wonder:

Are we saying that the FP green on Scoobymania's site, along with the bumph and figures published, are in fact not of a Subaru fitted with said turbo..?

Please can someone correct me if I'm wrong...:Suspiciou

so Does the MD321T still come out on top?

Hi David,

I think Bill (badger5) was just forwarding his views on the Green/Red based on his experiance in his application. You are quite right, a VAG 1.8 is not an EJ20, but then again a UK spec top mounted EJ20 is not the same as an EJ25 equipped with AVCS, FMIC etc etc ;) At the end of the day, info is info.

Who are the "we"? ;)

The figures we posted above and the figures on our website (Green 460bhp, 'Blue' 480bhp, Red 520bhp) were all made on a Subaru (2ltr with stock, non-AVCS cams), only changes to the car being the turbo and mapping to suit :thumb:

Sorted:thumb:

mike at scoobymania posted what he's seen out of the green as a max. that was my motor, hence me posting. its not a scoob, its a seat 1.8t.
my setups utilise ihi type flanging which is why I am where I am turbo fitment wise and not something like a T3flanged garrett something or other.

I believe the high 400 numbers are from there demo scoob on both green and red. 1.8t motor on different dyno (dyno lottery anyone) gave more power but only after intake change and larger t'body. - maybe this works on scoobs also?

so you didn't have a front mount bigger injectors induction kit decat exhaust or a full system with sports cat on there then just a from factory engine and fuelling system on engine side part changed was the turbo sound unlikey to me sorry

I thought those figures aren't bolt-on values....

SM used a built 2 litre according to their web-site ? Or am I mistaken ?

Apologies in advance, if mis-understood.

DunxC (MD321H on std 2 litre ;) )

I have an FP green on my STI 7 2ltr with stock internals.

I also run a set of ceramic coated GT Spec Gen 2 headers. Spool in 4th gear shows 1 bar by 3000rpm and 1.5 bar by 3400rpm. Recorded on delta dash.

Response is stunning even on my 2ltr and the drivability is very very good indeed. I have to say its much nicer to drive and spools better than my previous TD05 20g.
The 20g was on ported OEM headers too!

I have no power figures as yet for my current setup, but it feels very very strong indeed. :D

I agree, that would be extremely unlikely! Obviously the car has all the necessary mods (FM, exhaust, injectors etc) to support those hp figures :) The quote “only changes to the car being the turbo and mapping to suit” perhaps should read “only changes to the car (inbetween these ‘turbo’ tests) being the turbo and mapping to suit”. Ie. you are directly comparing the turbos with no other modifications or changes to the spec of the car which could/would cloud the results.


dunx - Yup it is one of our built short motors, forged pistons, rods, modified crank, sleeves etc.


Frayz - Glad you like it. We have since tested half a dozen or so differing turbo configurations, aimed at the high 300s low 400s bhp bracket. Our new ‘baby’ turbo just made 411bhp & 406lbft! :thumb:


Jase.

Yeah Jase im well happy. I'll be swapping the hotside to the 8cm when it goes on my built 2.5 soon.

Hopefully it should do the business then too :)

However, we did run our shop STi 7 at 452 BHP for over 10 months on its stock engine. That was some years back, it's in our workshop in perfect working order after we spent that 10 months trying to break it during use, (and didn't manage). :norty:

I have to say I wouldn't recommend it though. :p