Leon Cupra R or integra R or Celica GT4
 

Hi people, was looking at trading in a pig of a car and maybe getting one of these babys.

Was looking for realiability and good performance, i know they are a bit of an odd bunch but not sure what to go for as if all plans go a head i will buy myself an evo 6 and my brother will get one of the abouve which inturn we will share.

any opinions.

think the cupra is the cheapest as ive seen them for £3800 plus- ingegras start about 6k and the gt4 i dont know....


Thanks in advance

D

You wont get a cupra R for 3800. more like 7500 for a very early one. you will get an early model 20vt cupra 180 turbo though..with those godawfull multispoke alloys. in fairness i had the R and the cupra is still a decent car and revo tuning can get way up past the R's 210/225 bhp.

id say this though..check that oil filler cap after a test drive because mine developed an overheating issue and the coil packs are prone to going on them too. a bit more cash and you could get a facelift model and they look WAY nicer than the older 20vt.

Teg or Cupra though you won't get an R for that price as said.

GT4 is a good car, but old now...........

Yeah sorry must be the 180 bhp version, i was confused did think it was a bargin...... so the cupra r's start at 7.5k, hmmmm too expensive but like you said they look nicer than the 180 bhp cupras and are faster.

I had a 2003my Cupra with revo remap - nippy car although not blistering with all that weight.
Mine had the full leather, cruise, etc so was very well specced, did around 28mpg around town (steady driving).
As mentioned above there are a few VAG problems to be wary of - coil packs, windows dropping (factory plastic regulator clips - updated metal ones available), some leccy problems (a wire snapped behind dash on mine when all windows were fully down and i couldn't get them up again).

2 days after i sold mine the buyer phoned to say the water pump had gone - £350 to repair - i think the standard part broken? was plastic and the new replacement was metal

Integra...brother owns one, picked up for £6000 FHSH, Mugen manifold and full exhaust system too. Awesome car, best fwd ever (evo & topgear magazine) one of the top ten best cars ever made (evo magazine).

Great Best Motoring vid on the web raved about the 96 & 98 versions... best FWD ever etc...

JDM 98 Model smart buy and would imagine would be a sound investment... sniff... only 2 doors tho or I would have one N O W :freak3:

Have to admit, never driven a LCR, or a ITR for that matter, but the Celica is a fabulous car with superb build quality, and with a few mods, easily makes 300bhp. As for the looks, I think mine looked the dogs danglies, but some people don't like them (nobody ever said that to me, everybody loved it)
For that sort of money, Celica is my choice, but if I had a larger amount (10K), I think the LCR would be my choice. (Sorry, no disrespect to ITR owners, but I just don't like the power delivery of the VTEC engines).

Situation is that we are doing the house thing first....... Then as for the last 4 years all i wanted is a Evo 6 we have agreeded to buy one to share and then a lesser car...

We got a williams and a punto gt to shift first before we move onto some serious metal but house comes first at the moment.

Just out of curiousity several people i know have turbo golfs mk4, how does the Leon cupra compare? ive also driven an audi tt 225 and was left slightly dissapointed with the car am i likely not to like any Leons then?

Thanks for your feed back

ITR is one of the most enjoyable cars I have ever owned, driven a GT4 and it felt like a barge, I gues the Leon will have no soul, it's a no brainer.

On my second ST205 Celica at the moment and I'm still impressed with how well its put together... ok, its a bit bland, but it doesnt rattle/squeek like my friends MY00 DC2 does.

My car has the ability to reach 300bhp easily.. Going the cheapest route with just a de-cat, relief valve and a panel filter.. all in, 200quid, tops. Change that to a de-cat, exhaust, boost controller and panel filter and you've still only spent £1000 tops.. not a bad return in a bhp per £ sense. :)

While I agree that standard they arent as chuckable as an Impreza.. and dont feel as eager due to the Twin Entry Turbo being VERY smooth (basically a Twin Scroll unit, IIRC not introduced to mainstream Imprezas until MY03). The boost is limited in 1st gear, hence why any stats dont look too impressive.. a boost controller removes this limiter. I'm about 99% sure that the only thing EVO magazine didnt like about the car was the fact it was a bit toooo refined for a Rally Rep, still scored 4-stars.

Like someone above said, if I was spending c10k on a car, then I'd go for the Cupra R, I drove a very low mileage 225bhp model and it really impressed with the way it was able to put down its power on a slightly wet road. :cool:


Cheers,
Grant

OK. I'll bite. The Leon you like is the Cupra R. Looks miles better than the basic Cupra. The R is too dear so forget it. Whatever you do do not buy the cheapest GT4 you can find - the impression I got was that this is exactly what you are thinking of doing. I really like them and spent ages in the Toyota showroom with my dad when they first came out. Tiny boot put us off in the end. But the main reason not to buy an old one is the potential cost of repairing it when things start to go wrong. You seem to be on a tight budget with the house move and everything so buying a cheap performance car could be a huge false economy (particularly one with a 10 year old turbocharger!!). The Integra is therefore your best bet. They will always be in demand which will be good when you come to sell it and the mechanicals are largely bullet proof. It'll be great fun and painless to own. Good luck.

Yes think your right blue, dont really need another turbo car if we gunna get an evo 6... so an Integra would be a more sensible bet besides one of us does short journeys and it will kill a turbo car so thats something to consider too.

Cheers

ITR can be fairly reasonable to run day to day too, 32mpg claimed, reliable, easy to drive, no turbo to warm up/cool down/worry about... mines been uber reliable for two point five years and still makes me smile when I get a clear shot at a B road :D Can't recommend them enough.

Thats some very good advice. I was gonna say the GT-Four as I used to have one but after reading blueblasters post I would opt for the Honda = Always go Japanese :thumb:

ITR will cost less in the long run

I feel you will be kind of let down by the leon in some ways and suprised in others.

they are 3 massivly different cars you are thinking about..ITR being a screaming fwd thats paper light compared to the others and is a focused drivers car. the celica is going to feel a bit lardy in comparison but it has the 4wd to get the power down.which brings me to the leon. its going to feel better put together than the pair of them and its going to be the heaviest of the lot.

the power is smooth..constant pressure and no HUGE surge. sometimes i felt like it wasnt really that impressive and the boost tappered off to early. also..this is hard to describe but i felt uninvolved with the car like it was just vauge steering and input through the front wheels. i guess having a ctr before made the leon feel like a heffer.

have you considered a civic type r at all? one with a few mods would be a good compromise over the 3 cars mentioned.

I'd echo all of that, best handling car I've ever owned, would have another one tomorrow if I didn't need 4 doors. Always made driving fun, and the Vtec kick is addictive :norty: So it might not have massive power, but I don't think you need to do anything to them at all, and still have a hell of a motor that'll run and run.
Always regret trading it in, which I haven't with any of the other cars I've owned.

Without a doubt 200% i'd got for the Teg R anytime;)

The VTEC roar is addictive as hell!! Especially with filter & exhaust mods:D

I've got an 98R FTO GP Version R Aero Series at the moment that's up for sale. I'd thought about getting a Teg R but they're pretty much the same kinda thing as my FTO.

So i either want an STi Scooby or an Evo 5;)


Craig:cool:

Integra, no question.

By far the best of the three mentioned.

Teg.

Not even a close call. It will be cheaper to run by shedloads, even factoring in Honda's willingness to ride bareback at the service intervals.

And the vtec power delivery is better than a turbo so I don't get the comment above re. vtec power.

That is SERIOUSLY debatable. you have to utterly hammer the vtec to extract power that the turbo has way down the rev range. if thats his thing then integra all the way but no way does vtec power feel as urgent and as explosive as the boost of a turbocharger and anyone who says it does either one hell of an engine in their honda or they havnt driven a car with a turbo for a while.

the old addage that vtecs are underperformers under the changeover point is slightly true..and not all people like to look like sterling moss when trying to get a bit of speed up. i felt like a tw*t sometimes having to wring its neck to keep up with some cars that were getting away that didnt sound like they were trying too hard. horses for courses..all depends on his driving style.

I would feel much more comfortable balancing a car mid ben on the throttle in a VTEC and keeping it in the zone rather than a turbo zone.

ITR is an excellent all-round car. I had a ST185 GT4 and although handling is sound it seemed quite "podgy" and not extremely responsive.

I imported an ITR over for my friend, who since, has added an induction kit and exhaust (without de-cat) and it sounds absolutely mental when the V-TEC kicks in, also feels like a little go-kart.. He has Tein coilovers and handling wise it feels like its stuck to the ground. With a few mods if you get it up to about 220ish bhp, it can be a very fun/quick car.

All depends on how much you would like to spend really....