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Strange supercharger/turbo combination od sorts seen today: Chevy built!
Seen at Shelsley Walsh hill climb over the weekend, this 'device' is a produvtion item for the road going Chevy Touring Car production cars.
Belt driven and using a Turbo 'cold side' compressor with FMIC thrown in. Interesting? http://tinypic.com/aws2zk.jpg http://tinypic.com/aws37t.jpg http://tinypic.com/aws3go.jpg Graham. |
Looks abit like the vortech superchargers some tuners stick on American Zetecs
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First time I'd seen one of these. Very neat and very simple. Are they effective?
Graham. |
Have seen something similar on Civics - seem very effective :D
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I remember a bloke made one for his classic Mini, he had it running off a pulley around the flywheel so that the turbine was running at a high enough speed...... no real reason why it shouldn't work very well.....
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it's a supercharger, very similar to the setup used on Stevie's Granada with the LS-1 engine.
Paul |
Not sure how effective centrifugal superchargers are. Vortech claim theirs to be as effective at modern screw type superchargers. They've been around for almost as long, so its not a new thing really.
I would guess that it needs a different impellar design to a turbo to work well, as the speed a turbo runs at would be faster than what you can acheive with a usable combination of pulleys. So I'd guess it wouldn't be quite as simple as chopping a turbo in half and fitting a pulley to get the best results. Considered a conversion on the scoob ( I hate lag :D )...there's a nice space where the a/c compressor should have been ;) |
Originally Posted by ALi-B
Not sure how effective centrifugal superchargers are. Vortech claim theirs to be as effective at modern screw type superchargers. They've been around for almost as long, so its not a new thing really.
I would guess that it needs a different impellar design to a turbo to work well, as the speed a turbo runs at would be faster than what you can acheive with a usable combination of pulleys. So I'd guess it wouldn't be quite as simple as chopping a turbo in half and fitting a pulley to get the best results. Considered a conversion on the scoob ( I hate lag :D )...there's a nice space where the a/c compressor should have been ;) Paul |
So a bit more than a turbo cut in half then then ;)
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The 'block' attached to the output casting is very prototype in execution and has a serious oil feed to it so i presumed some type of multipier as the pullies were about 2:1 off the crankshaft.
Would this make a good pre-charger for a normal turbo instead of the sequential twin turbo 'thinking' . The hole from the A/C is indeed the perfect location for drive, and (albeit via 90 deg elbo) you could sneek the output tube into the induction pipe if the power steering pump was not there. Graham. |
The unit fitted to the Chevrolet (daewoo) is a Rotrex Supercharger see http://www.rotrex.eu.com/ for details. We are currently fitting one to one of our racecars with a Hayabusa Engine, also shown at Shelsley this weekend just gone.
From there web site Impeller speeds of up to 120,000rpm are achieved through the patented hi-speed planetary traction gear, which combines small size with exceptional performance and durability. It is matched to a Holset turbo housing. We are hoping for a Power out put from our 1400cc Hayabusa of 350bhp! |
How does this device compare to the classic TD05 20G?
On a good day I can see 400+ bhp from my so equiped 2 litre, but it was a bit laggy on the Shelsley hill climb and elsewhere..wonder how this device is in comparison. Shelsley was a great meeting wasn't it! Graham. |
The beauty of a supercharger is that you dont get the lag of a turbo and it pulls from very low down.
On the bike engine we have to build a certain amount of slip into the drive as the bike engine revs too quickly for the supercharger. I think someone has already supercharged a Scoob. I know of one with a supercharger as well as a turbo I will do some digging for you. |
Originally Posted by 911
Shelsley was a great meeting wasn't it! Graham. And the weather was excelent compared with the forcast! Still cannot get over the sound of the spitfire, the BRM V16 and GWR arrows V10, where else could you get that variety!! |
Ahhh, yesssss!
The Spit was magical... The BRM ran 138Db, the track limit is 108.. And the V10? Just sublime. Wish the commentators would have shut-up when GWJ ran! I cannot see how a hill climb could have been better. Pity I didn't win :norty: That EVO is just so fast. Graha :D |
I am due to help a friend fit one of these to his E36 M3, along with FMIC as well. I think we are planning to make progress late this year, i'll post the results.
Iain |
Do that in the projects section; much easier to keep tabs on it all!
Graham. |
Its a little baby supercharger :D
I think Turbo Technics market the Rotrex brand, or if not, one very similar. It doesnt use normal gears like my Vortech, but planetary gears. http://www.turbotechnics.com/supercharger/intro.htm Dont think a Centrifugal blower offers the same low rpm torque a Rootes or an PD type blower will. They simply dont. They build boost as the rpms climb. eg, mines only making say 3-5psi at 3000rpm and about 15psi at 6000rpm Mid range torque isnt as impressive as it could be, but it depends on the overall package. Power delivery from a CF is much more user friendly in my opinion, although doesnt feel as nice as a turbo. |
From that then, it is not really that good!?
The small blowers off Jaguars may be better for an Impreza if there was the space for it? Graham. |
I certainly like mine. I know turbos would make a lot more power, and have much better torque, or perhaps a twin screw blower.
But it would be a lot harder for me to make use of that power. Depends how much power you want, and how well you can get it to the ground. My new engine with the CF Vortech makes a lot more power than my old twin turbo rover V8 did, yet it also puts it to the ground far better. Its all good in my opinion. |
Dont think a Centrifugal blower offers the same low rpm torque a Rootes or an PD type blower will. They simply dont. They build boost as the rpms climb. eg, mines only making say 3-5psi at 3000rpm and about 15psi at 6000rpm Mid range torque isnt as impressive as it could be, but it depends on the overall package. Power delivery from a CF is much more user friendly in my opinion, although doesnt feel as nice as a turbo. |
Originally Posted by ALi-B
I suppose based on a that, a CF blower would be better on a engine with decent low down torque (not a scooby 4 banger ;) ) a very lighweight car (or bike ;) )or on a car that has traction problems off the line (FWD etc. ) ??
Its still an issue with the CF, but nowhere near as bad. I can get some good grip in 2nd, and all in 3rd now in the dry, whereas before 1st, 2nd, and quite often 3rd was useless before, depending on road surface. Its a much faster, and safer car to drive. |
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