Pain in the but PC, help appreciated.
 

My PC just seems to develop quirk after quirk, it's so annoying I am tempted to just burn it and buy a mac!

Sat evening, I switched her off, functioning perfectly (recenlty re-installed xp after a new hard-drive, been running lovely). ASUS A7N8X Deluxe, XP3000+, Samsung Spin 160gb, x2 512mb DDR 2700 Dimms.

Sunday, switched it on got stuck on the very first graphics card post screen. I left it for a while, then hit the chassis reset switch. Then nothing. No post whatsoever. And 'no signal' sign from monitor. I have a second graphics card knocking about, so I took out my GC and tried the spare, and the same thing happened.

My ASUS board had been pretty unreliable and I just assumed it had finally given up, as it seemed quite unlikely both graphics cards would go. I bought an MSI K7N2 Delta 2 today, just rebuilt it, switched it on, same BLOODY THING! Tried both cards, and borrowed someones monitor, no change.

Could it be both cards have misteriously broken, I hate things like this, without test machines it's so hard to problem solve.

Anyone any other ideas before I start spending more money! :)

Cheers,

Nick

Start by clearing CMOS. If that fails, disconnect everything except CPU, RAM and GFX and see if you can boot into BIOS. If that fails, remove EVERYTHING, up to and including taking the m/b out of the case. Clean up the CPU and then apply new thermal paste and refit. Make sure the cooler is correctly mounted.


M

Hi Meridian,

Well all of that happened today, by installing the new MSI board, I cleaned the case, cleaned the CPU with alcohol (and HSF), re-fitted everything. At the moment, it's just the bare bones, and tried both GFX but the same problem happens, that is why I am posting on here, I am totally lost, new mobo - new system apart from the GFX, but how both would die escapes me!

One GFX card going is rare but possible, but to put another in straight after and have the same, doesn't figure, I was sure it must be the MOBO, but with a new one on, I don't get it!

Interesting situation. Just a thought have you tried replacing the Case PSU? (Power Supply Unit) Just in-case it's a power issue. Most newer CPUs require the 12V Square connector so that the CPU has it's own power supplied to it. Considering you have already replaced everything else.

Now that didn't occur to me at all, it's a 300w PSU that I got when it was an XP2000+ system, replacing that would intail buying one though, but I guess there arne't really any other possiblities.

I'd second that - it's the common link. PSU's are responsible for delivering a 'power good' signal to the motherboard to initiate the boot after it performs any necessary internal self-tests and problems with this signal could conceivably give you your symptoms of MB failure. Although I've never had one fail in this particular way, in my PC building experience the PSU is one of the most unreliable components in the chain and it's worth investing in a decent one.

Gary.

I've seen a PSU that wasn't correctly plugged into the MB or HDD pull the whole machine down. I can't fully explain it as it looked like it was getting power good. Once the connections were remade to the MB/HDD it all worked fine. If you had a dodgy crimp or joint then you could be seeing a similar thing. With this in mind I would second trying a new PSU. Perhaps you could borrow one from somewhere?

When you turn it on does the PSU switch off after a few seconds ? My PSU's have turned off when overloaded. I'm near croydon if you want to borrow a 400w or rub my magic fingers over it :)

Had a similat thing recently. Thought the mobo had gone - funnily enough it was an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe .... - got a new one (well, a recon one) and it wasn't the problem. It was the psu - doh!!!! Try Maplins for a cheap psu to see if that is the problem.

Cheers

Dave

Just to add if it is power get something either with a 12cm fan or a Tagan 480w as they are ultra quiet compared to the cheap ones. I have a low speed 12cm and you can just tell the PC is on :) Although the graphics, CPU case fans are all aftermarket in a silent case.

PSU would have been my next check, but I've been beaten to it. But do NOT buy a cheap PSU as you'll probably just get the same problem. 300W is not enough for any current m/b unless you have a very high quality one. Aim for 400W+ to allow room for expansion - RAM in particular is a big power hog.


M

Couldn't agree more... :)

Thanks for the heads up, I noticed my new board does have the 12v connector for the CPU as mentioned, I tried plugging that in, no difference. It is actually a fairly pricey PSU with a speed control at the back for the fan, although I think it's been on low speed for quite a while and it is 4 years old. So I'll pop out and buy one this lunch time.

What watt? (arf) Max what? Will 350/400 suffice or should I be looking bigger than that!?

I am going to go up Tottenham Court Road in London there is a Maplins there, but also loads of dodgey computer shops, they're ***t's the lot of them, but you can get some bargains. I noted when I got home that the MSI board I had bought, had had the MSI rounded IDE cables removed and replaced with cheap standard IDE cables, cheeky tossers!

Hi,

Could be the PSU as stated however it could also be a problem with the RAM, have you tried running just one stick of ram at a time? and then swapping them? if you get the problem with stick but not the other then it would indicate a problem with that stick of ram.

I'm suprised when you said you has found that your ASUS card was unreliable, ASUS produce well made and reliable components.

I once has a problem, not quite the same as you, where every 2 in 3 bootups resulted in a scrambled display, initially thought it was a graphics card problem so swapped it - same problem, the graphics card is one which requires it own power so thought could be PSU, swapped it - same problem, in the end turned out to be a dodgy ram module.

If you bought cheap ram which is made by a not so well known manufacturer it could cause you problems, memory leaks etc.

Personally I use Corsair's XMS PRO ram, however Kingston are also very good too.

Better off with something like a 450W just incase you plan on upgrading again. 300W isn't enough these days, especially with the more powerful Graphics Cards.

I was thinking about the ram today, I have one stick of twinmoss which was quite expensive when I bought it, and also a cheap generic brand. I have been meaing to upgrade to decent brand of DDR400, crucial has always worked well for me in the past.

I think it's prolly time for a new PSU anyway, I bought a 300w when I had an xp2000+ with 250mb of ram, and to be fair this is a more demanding system. Thanks for all the advice, I hate it when I hit a stump which goes beyond my experience / logic it's very frustrating, nice to see I am not the only one that has these problems! :)

Porbably also a good idea. I can recommend OCZ RAM. Find this can be stable although not the fastest. Always found that some Motherboards need BIOS updates performing before using Corsair XML stuff.

prob the psu - if its cpu, graphics or memory you'll get a beep code. you've not mentioned this so psu is most likely

Well to keep you posted on the phantom PC.

I tried swapping the ram around, and that didn't change anything, I also bought a 400w PSU, still no playing.

The only thing that hasn't been changed now is the new 160 Samsung Hard-drive.. But I can't see how that would not allow the signal to get through, unless it's not allowing the Mobo to go through the boot...

I am so lost with this..

A couple more things worth trying.

1) Try running the system out of the case with the MB on a non-conductive surface. It could be that a degree of flex induced in the motherboard is compromising a connection, or the case is somehow causing a short somewhere.

2) Try disconnecting the hard disk cables completely. I can't imagine the system is freezing at bootup due to a hard disk problem, as it should still allow you to go to BIOS or boot from floppy, but worth a try, as is changing the IDE cable if you have a spare.

3) Check/replace the floppy drive cable. A bad floppy drive cable used to be able to cause complete boot failures in MB's some years back.

Failing all that I guess the only other thing is a faulty CPU.

Gary.

Where in London are you ?

I have enough spare parts to find the fault if you need a hand so to speak.

RE: Floopy drive cable, I don't have a floppy attached, could this be the problem? I don't have any need for a floppy so I took it off and disabled it in previous Mobo.

Scooby: That's a very generous offer I am in deepest Darkest South West, but I am not sure I'll have the spare time this week. I'll PM you if I do, thanks again.

Nick

Try resetting the Mobo to factory setting and remove everything that is not needed. Soundcards/wireless cards etc and be left with Mobo/1 stick of RAM/hard drive/graphics and processor. Does the PC remain stable in the Bios or does it keep dying. I'm near J7 of the M25 if you need help.

from memory, don't asus boards have a 2 digit LED widgit on the MOBO to indicate what problem it's having?

when you boot it up it's will display two letters / numbers - what are they?

Just to re-clarify the progress, soon after the initial problem, after reducing system to bare bones, clearing CMOS and trying the basic trouble shooting, I replaced the board with an MSI K7N2 Delta 2. So I now have this board, with xp3000+, one stick of 512mb Twinmoss PC2700 184DIMM ram and 64mb (built by) ATI 9800SE, and Samsung 160gb Spin Point and no floppy drive. And a Enermax 400w PSU (with the squ 12v power cable for CPU).

Everything is now different apart from CPU and HD (although I have tried two different GFX on this board), and I have new IDE cables on HD. I do have a spare processor which I could try, and a spare hard-drive. I think I might try it out of the case tonight.