ARE STANDARD BRAKES REALLY THAT BAD???
 

Hi All,

I have recently replaced front disk and pads on my MY98 turbo wagon and connot belive they are as bad as they are. or is something wrong??

I have new 277mm standard discs and pads on the front along with my weenie 2 pots and standard on teh back which i havent replaced.

Yesterday after nailing my car all the way down frocester hill near Stroud with a guy trying hard on a motorbike behind me( and leaving him behind) i had complete brake fade. It was worrying and very concerning, just some forced use of the gearbox when running out of brakes could i slow down about a mile after it had flattened out.

Now i know mine is all standard, rubber brake lines, 2 pot floating calipers etc but it still felt woefully inadequate.

Question is should i bother replacing rear disks and pads as standard or invest in new 4 pots, bigger discs, red stuff, braided hoses, new fluid etc etc, just to get some safe braking - and yes i could drive slower, but thats not why i bought the car, oh and i am off to the 'ring at some point soon too.

your thoughts welcome...thanks in advance

Eeek, I think the Ring will make mincemeat of your current set up mate! :)

How much do you want to spend?

APs are your best bet if you're serious about track work, but rather pricey.

If you're not inclined to pay that much, you'll be wanting the four pots from the MY99 (which are perfectly good for fast road and occassional track use IMHO) Compliment them with a good performance pad, decent discs and braided hoses and all should be fine.

NS04

cheers,

went to the ring last year in my modified sport and that had ebc greens and black diamond grooved and drilled discs on it - never had prob or a hint of brake fade.

think investment is the only answer, am on a budget (aint we all) but 4 pots seememd to get snapped up quick or sold for loads....

What type of brake fade are you getting?

Soft pedal going to the floor or hard pedal that needs shed loads of force to do something?

hard pedal after, brakes fine when cooled a bit, not much confidence in them after a few corners - maybe pads are glazing?

ditch the front 2 pots - they're s**t, had the same problem at castle coombe - almost went into the control tower at the end of the straight....

yep sounds like you Cooked them :D

The 2 pots aren't very good by all means. I never understood why as other cars of similar weight and performance with the same 2 pot caliper design and size and disc size don't suffer anywhere near as badly :confused:

What you do next is dependent on your budget.

thanks Ali - thats what i suspected guess i am just gonna have to go BIG on the brakes, need tyres too so its gonna hurt!

so next question, do the bigger brakes work with standard 16" rims or should i sell both sets of standard wheels (1 silver, 1 gold set) and get 17"s - but then again thats not the optimum size i have heard - its a nightmare!!! lol

You'll get the standard 4pots and discs to fit on 16" rims.

But if you go for 17" you can fit even bigger discs and calipers. ;)

Before you potentially start spending bigger bucks, it might be worth looking at some of the basics here.

How new are your front discs and pads, i.e. have they completed their bedding-in period..? What brand of discs and pads did you go for..? OEM or some sort of blue-printed parts..? When you fitted the pads, did the pistons retract with a minimum of fuss or do you think they might be siezing..? Pads deffo seated correctly and copper grease used..?

Jonts.

Godspeed do a 4 pot Brembo kit for 16 inch rims with a disc diameter of 305mm (IIRC) for £795! That should be more than adequate for a car with the weight of a classic.

NS04

hi jonty, went for aftermarked discs and pads (£100 the lot) and yes they are bedded in, been on the car a few weeks now and get used alot on b roads every day so would say they are bedded in. i checked the pistons moved freeley and applied copper grease to the piston face, pads and calipers seated nicely, no trouble getting them in or pumping the pedal back up after.

day to day they are okayish, just cant take any punishment at all...

Although price isn't always the definitive factor in life, perhaps £100 for a set of front pads and discs is a bit too cheap for this application..? What make are they/where did you get them from..? If you conduct some searches, perhaps you'll find they're not generally regarded as okay for fast-road use.

Just a thought. Other than that, looks like you did okay.

Jonts.

hi jonts, you are probably right, never heard of the brand before, they were a vented disc but i reckon its gonna turn out to be a false economy.

I like to nail the brakes so should have uprated from the outset.

so on that note, any cheap 4 pots out there! will post a wanted on the classified and keep a look out for those elusive 4 pots

Cheers!

you need 18" wheels and Ap 6 pots :)

Yes,

the standard 2 pot set-up is that bad. For £100, you won't have got very good discs or pads, and it's likely that these will have overheated in no time at all.

You can get AP 4 pots with 305mm discs which will fit very nicely under 16 inch rims, and will withstand virtually all the abuse you could ever throw at them on the road and the Ring as well.

On the pre-99 cars, it's something that I would recommend you tackle first, before even looking for better power or handling. You can drive the car with so much more confidence (and speed) in most circumstances with the re-assurance that you'll always be able to hit the brakes and have a good pedal feel and consistent braking.

The AP kit comes complete with braided hoses for the front, and suitable brake fluid as well. They do come up for sale 2nd hand from time to time, so keep your eyes open.

The Subaru 4 pots are only a mild improvement over the 2 pots. The biggest problem is that they are cast iron calipers, and the heat soon builds up and you get pad knock-off/fade if you are pushing the car. By the time ou buy a 2nd hand set of 4 pots, fit good pads and discs you are probably getting close to the price of one of the less expensive big brake kits.

Generally when it comes to braking, you get what you pay for!

John

Cheers John,

Once again ScoobyNet has shown what a great rescource it is for any question thrown at it.

Reason i bought the discs was that when i bought the car 6 weeks ago the discs were warped, it was a quick fix, so now its time to get serious and spend some dosh on discs

I'd upgrade to 17" wheels when you need tyres, you'll still find WRX wheels on here, maybe WITh tyres, for rerasonable, I paid £250 about a year ago.

(I've also found that my 17" tyres are available cheaper than the equivalent 16":confused: )

Then you can go for the Godspeed 325mm discs and brembo calipers, with braided hoses all round.

You'll wonder what you did before!

Alcazar

Ive got some gold 17" (PFF) wheels Im about to sell if your interested with F1 tyres (215/40/17)...

i had same exact problem as you ,,,,,, basically ur brakes are like mine (****E) , i dive on my brakes now when i need them and its started to feel better , or always pump them before i go out , dunno if it works , but i crashed yet ! touch wood

SWISH! lets hope you dont crash eh! lol - you certainly need the confidence of brakes!!!

Warren - YHPM...

4 pots for sale here

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=425768

cool, will take a look...

cool, will take a look...cheers

I'll have 4 pots/discs/pads for sale within a couple of weeks too.