BIG END failure
 

My fiance has an imprezza on a W plate. Recently took it to a reputable scooby dealership for a 67.5k service. All appeared fine when we picked the car back up but low and behold 100 miles down the road the engine starts making a knocking noise.
We get the car shipped back to the dealership as we were slightly concerned by the sudden appearance of a gremlin in the engine area.

The garage removed and stripped the engine and found 'big end failure'. Luckily ( or not as the case may be..?) as he didnt continue driving the car, the impacting damage wasnt as bad as it could have been. The crank has had to be reground, and a new con rod put in.

I phoned Subaru UK as we werent too impressed that this had happened on a vehicle of its age and mileage - it is serviced regularly by Subaru - and especially as it had just had a service and nothing was detected by the technicians. The unhelpful little man ( who couldnt answer half my concerns) suggested that this is an uncommon problem and that we ask the garage to submit a request for 'goodwill' to help with the mammoth repair bill - even though the vehicle is out of warranty, apparently Subaru consider these things on a case by case basis.

We got the car back tonight after 2 weeks with a ' get stuffed' from Suburau UK ( well more like a 'regret unable to assist at this age and mileage). Why do they bother to suggest this course of action if they immediately tell you where to go?

Has anyone else had a similar problem with their big end? Or had a similar experience with Subaru UK?

Its not so uncommon Im afraid, especially after an oil and filter change. Id be looking to establish exactly what procedure the dealer followed when changing the filter, paying particular attention to the way that they started the engine for the first time after the swap... If they dont crank the engine without allowing it to start at the least, ideally removing the plugs and building pressure that way, then the bearings can fail. Getting them to accept liability is a different matter, but Id consider going straight to the small claims court.....

Simon

Thanks Simon - it's obviously worth looking into further then - guess what I am probably doing tomorrow...!

hi, sorry to hear about the scoob.where abouts are you from?thing is i have just had the 67.5mile service aswell on my99 turbo.did your fiance notice anything different about the car when you got it back-noises,revs fluttering anything out of the norm?
will be speaking to the mechanic tommorrow to put my mind at ease.

Lee

Unfortunately some dealers don't even pre-fill the filter! :eek:

if its so uncommen why did subaru issue a dealer bulletin thingy on the correct procedure for an oil change, something along the lines of, fill and keep topping up the new oil filter until it absorbs no more oil. then crank the engine over whilst not letting it start and as said above ideally without the plugs until the low oil pressure light goes out. not following this procedure has been atributed to many engine failures soon after service / oil change hence the need for the bulletin. and if they had to issue a bulletin is that not an admission to some degree that there is a problem? getting them to admit they didn't follow this procedure (if at all they didn't) is a different matter. anyone with more know how agree or not?

stevie

stevie boy, dont suppose you know where I could get a copy of that bulletin ;)

That about the correct age and mileage for a MAF failure to occur, which can lead to big end engine failure.

The MAF sensor on an MY99/00 is fragile and they gradually deteriorate, which the ECU compensates for. When you have a service the ECU is reset and the compansation learning for a failing MAF is wiped from the ECU, this can leave the engine running lean which can kill the big ends.

I would suspect a MAF issue, when the engine was rebuilt did they install a new MAF sensor? (this is the sensor in the air inlet pipe from the airfilter to the turbo that measures the amount of air entering the engine)

no sorry dude, only what i've read on here a few times

stevie

You have email :)

I don't think there is a bulletin about the oil change procedure. I've read about it here a few times, but no-one has been able to produce anything. The dealer I asked was also unaware of such a bulletin.

Andy; if thats a copy of the bulletin then Id be very interested in seeing it.....

Simon

It's not, sorry :(

I heard about this alleged bulletin too but was never able to lay my hands on a copy.

I'm not surprised, it comes to something should dealers not even be performing an oil change properly!! :eek: I'd want to keep tight wraps on it if I were in a senior position in Subaru UK

I have a MY00 and am aware of the MAF issue, but the revs go all over don't they when that fails?

I am convinced that the Subaru Main Dealer I go to doesn't see any point in tarting about with turning the engine over on the starter first ............ indeed, the Apprentice does the Servicing!!! :eek:

The Apprentice is too busy thinking about his love-bite to really give a bollox about an old wives tale :rolleyes:

Pete

Could you tell us what the bill was?

I phoned the dealership today and gave them the 3rd degree over the MAF sensor - they have confirmed that from their point of view all was and still is ok with it. Lets just hope, for their sake, they are right otherwise.....

The total cost came to just under £2500. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/images/icons/icon8.gif The garage have been pretty good about knocking down the price slightly - but is this because they are feeling bad about something, me wonders? hhmmm..

Scoob is now back home - my other half is glad to see her as it beats running round in the Mitsubishi Space Star they loaned us!http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/images/icons/icon7.gif

even at bellow 3500rpm ;)

I had similar problems with My MY99 UK Turbo. 56000 miles and i needed a new short engine. All dealers are different and i managed to get all parts paid for by subaru. (£2000) Some you win some you loose but keep on at them. You may have a chance.

Reground crank or new???
 

Is it a good idea to have the crank reground and put back in?

Stu / Anna - I meant to ask - did you enquire why a new one wasn't used?

Lin

As has previously been stated, it would appear that 'Big END' failure is not uncommon.

I had mine go ....surprisingly enough, not that long after an oil change....at around 90K miles.

mine's an my93wrx.

Subaru, quoted me in the region of £2500 to do the job....

i opted for a second hand engine, which i managed to source via ebay ...... and the supplier fitted it for me....roughly a grand , plus my old engine in pt ex.

i too have read about the horror stories about not doing oil changes properly, so much so im sh!t scared of having another one done.


Frank




edit - i was told around £450 for a new crank


2nd edit - if you have a service done, the 'product' should be fit for use ...if your engine goes pop after 100 miles, surely that would indicate that wasnt the case ....and legally you have comeback on the supplier of the service.

There was never a bulletin regarding the oil changing procedure that went as far as tell the techs to pre fill the filter etc..

There is however a bulletin that states that when carrying out an oil change, the engine was only to be refilled with 4.25 litres of oil instead of the stated 4.5 litres. This takes the level to midway between min and max and means that when the oil is hot it will touch the maximum on the dipstick.. It states that failure to follow this it could lead to big-end failure immediately after a service..
A copy of the document has been posted on here in the past. But I am looking thru my documents to find it..

I seem to remember that the MAF meter failure had something to do with over-filling the oil ....... are we saying that the Big-End goes because of MAF failure??

And NOT because of oil starvation??

Pete

You could have asked me this when you come round tomorrow! A reground crank doesnt make an difference -as long as the original crank is crack tested, if anything it's slightly better as the big end has a larger section shell bearing.

you remember incorectly pete. MAF's on MY99/00 are easy to contaminate by using an oiled aftermarket air filter. They also dont like induction kits.

I would treat an MY99/00 MAF as a service replacement item at 50K miles, they fail and deteriorate far to often after this point to risk your engine over a £77 item.

Dont ever use a reground crank on an STi spec engine, you can get away with it on a UK spec.

why cant you use a reground crank on a sti engine (worried cause thats about to be done on my P1)

kieran :eek2:

John Is it because they're nitrided or tuftrided or similar?

I would love to know the reasoning behind an extra 0.25ltr of oil causing a bearing failure! If Subaru issue this statement it must be backed-up with a proven reason?
JohnD

Pete; if your airflow meter reads inaccurately and the result is a lean mixture; then the resulting pre-ignition can cause the bearings to fail... Imagine: the piston hasnt reached TDC and it is still travelling upwards when the fuel/air charge ignites pushing down on the piston crown. The resulting force can be more than enough to cause bearing failure.

Simon

So? I suppose a STANDARD car with the standard induction and only touched when replacing Air Filter should be ok for ever??

My car MY00 is on 56k miles and seems ok, but, its out of warranty in May 2005 and knowing my luck it will 'go' in June! BUT, it hasn't been messed about with at all!?

Pete

Change it for peace of mind. make sure you get the part for just the sensor and not the whole housing.