Running ethanol in a scoob Question:)
 

What concentration of ethanol can you run in a car?
What does ethanol do to the car? ie does it pink or det or run hot?
What mods would you have to do?

Just out of interest really- about to get a large machine at work that uses lots of ethanol which gets changed regularly :idea:
Thought that sounded a bit wasteful :ponder2:

Your thoughts please...:)

Surely someone must have an idea?!

how about methanol?
its to avoid det by raising the octane iirc

The engineering dept at university ran an old 1.6 205 gti (had to be injected) on one or the other to investigate alternate fuel sources etc. It cooked the engine pretty quick as it runs hotter if I remember correctly. Cant remember if it was Meth or Eth though.

I wouldnt put it in my baby.....

I think John Banks may know a thing or two about this :)

American fuel companies add 10% methanol in winter time.

Ethanol can work as well, Andy F had some and used it and I tried a bit. Needs wideband AFR to setup so that you don't run lean, as this is what can cause the overheating. In the proper mixture, either increase power and keep things cool.

You might find Toluene or Methanol easier to come by and cheaper.
You could run up to 20% Toluene. It will inhibit det quite signifigantly.
I experimented with an equal mixture of Toluene and Methanol, 7% each and it was certainly effective. For best results the ECU has to be mapped to the fuel you are using.
adding 10% plus of Toluene will have much the same effect as running with N.F.

how do you rate Toulene over methanol?
preference over either?
I have the ability to advance the ignition to take advantage and if youve already run a test then it saves my experimenting
;)

If you are going to run Methanol you need to know what you are doing and be capable of increasing fueling as the car will run weaker. Also best to have an EGT guage as well as a wide band lambda. A bit dodgy in my opinion. 7% of each, T and M was a practical compromise that worked OK for me.

Have tested Ethanol on my car, results were shockingly good.
I found 5% gave a better increase in power with the same det resistance over 10%.

Rob

Rob, can you enlighten us on a source of Ethanol please?
Geddon : What sort of equipment runs etanol???

I use gallons of it at work mate, I would expect that somewhere like Jennychem would be able to supply it retail though.

Rob

I actually use it in IMS form which is 96%ethanol and 4%methanol, this is going to be the cheapest way for people to buy it if they want to try it. IIRC duty has to be paid on ethanol as it can be used for human consupmtion as an alcholic stimulant etc etc :D
The Methanol is added which is obviously poisonous, the ethanol is no longer 'drinkable' and no longer carries the Duty.

Ethanol and coke anyone? :D

Off the top of my head it is about 30p per litre.

Rob

A lot cheaper than methanol then, and similar benefit with less alteration of AFR.

I better get stocked up as Geddon will no doubt get it from the same Bund i do :D

I couldnt say wether it is better than methanol as i dont have a comparison, but i will on the 4th :)

Rob

Ethanol is blended ~5% in the fuel on some staions here in Sweden.
And you can also buy a something called E85 which consists of 85%Ethanol and 15% fuel....and it's cheper then then fuel :D

Will start trying it out as soon as I got a OK map on the car

OT: Rob&Paul overboost is fixed, now max boost is now only 1bar@7000rpm. thanks :)


Jan

Nice one Jan, i only saw your msn msg this morning.

Rob

Jan,

good news, I take it the die grinder did the trick then

Paul

Rob - any comments on the comparison?

Anyone -
Where can I get some Methanol / IMS from - chemist ???
Ta

30p a litre is very cheap

JennyChem sold Methanol at about 65p a litre, as I remember - would Ethanol be so much cheaper from them?

Would'nt ethanol (and methanol) if used burn at a much higher temperature? I guess the EGT would show this as Race fuel burns at a higher degree - I dont know what temps the Scoob engines can take (I'm talking uprated, not standard engine)

I used 50% IMS with 50% distilled water in my water injection. Beware that I left it in the tank for 2 months only to find it had started to grow a large clump of mold (Drunk I presume)

(M)ethanol mixes run lower EGT for the same power level. There is a massive charge cooling effect, as well as an ability to run more spark advance (this helps because the combustion occurs earlier so there is less heat to go out through the opening exhaust valve). However, if you lean it off and run more boost you can easily end up hotter than you started. You can also end up with quite high cylinder pressures which I have the breakages to show for ;)

John

As do I (last cylinder heads lasted about 10k miles before giving up!) and the reason that I'm on the look out for a nice alternative car..... one like Bob's!

So ethanol sounds like a much better idea......and is cheaper....... race fuel was nice but at the limit on advance and boost I seemed to get a few problems -especially mis-fires with what seemed ok spark plugs....... - that was at the limit racing cars at up to 170mph..........

I remember threads telling me that Ethanol had the same oxygen content (as normal fuel?) which does not sound right - and can someone explain to me how you can get race fuel varities that contain a higher oxygen content (how? - and why does it cost a fortune?!) - Fuzz clearly saw the benefit of this at PS the other month (and showed me that 106ron/96 Mon (now 105/95 Sunoco) with lower oxygen content is not the best - as confirmed by 76 Racing fuels themselves!)

There is a lot of tuning information for ethanol and race fuels on NASIOC. I try and steer clear these days as I end up tuning it (and driving it) like a fanny and breaking things.

Not an issue for me as I'm known as a very careful and slow driver ;)......... I could not better the 58 Miles from my house in Bristol to Bobs in under 35 minutes.... therefore I drive too sensibly and never (well only about £10k+ of repairs) break anything................. ;) :p