E30 M3 or Integrale 16v or classic WRX
 

Hi guys

As title really.
My budget will be up to about 7k.
What would you go for?
Criteria is nothing specific but a combination of performance, ease of servicing and repairs, insurance, running costs generally, and reliability, obivoulsy the scoob is a great contender but I hate to say it but there are a lot of them about and the other choices are that little bit different.
Cheers

Brett

What is your annual budget for running costs?

Take Integrale off if you want reliability.

E30 M3 only available in LHD, I think??

Havnt really go an annual budget calculated for running costs, i normally just service and repair as required by service books.

I used to run a Uk Impreza turbo and that was fine.

LHD doesnt really bother me. both the integrale and M3 are LHD.

So the 'grale really is that bad in terms of reliability?
I had heard scare stories about them but didnt know for sure. I have wanted one for years but i dont live anywhere near a dedicated lancia garage for its frequent repairs so it always put me off.

My other interests were:

Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6
BMW E30 325i sport
1990ish 535i sport
Toyota Mk1 MR2 Supercharged
Mercedes 190 Cosworth

and as a really cheap fun alternative pug 205 gti 1.9 or Mi16

with these cars i could spend a bit of cash on choice upgrades too :)

If you are on a tight(ish) budget, go for the E30, If you got deep pockets then go for the 'Grale.
astraboy.

Expect a £7k M3 to need some work doing to it.

I'd take the M3 out of that lot no question, much as I love Integrales

why not a mr2 turbo?

why??? have you owned one ???

There no where near as unreliable as people make out...look after it with regular maintance and it will be as reliable as any other 10 year + old car..

Thanks everybody for the comments.
The E30 M3 was high up on my choice list.
CraigH: How bad would a £7k m3 be then? Just cosmetic things needed or some major mechanicals?
MMS: I drove a mk2 mr2 (not turbo) and it just didnt have the kart like handling the mk1 had? would the mk2 turbo handle differently? Would some shocks/springs/roll bar/poly bushes sort the handling out properly?

Thanks again.
brett

Hey owning an integrale can/usually is expensive, budget around 2k a year just incase anthing major goes wrong, E30 M3's start at 3/4k if spend 7 on one it will be mint i thinlk!!!

I was thinking of them 2 cars and the merc cossie, They are all classics its my opinion!!

a late turbo like you'd get for your buget would have a better LSD 245bhp, ride height is lower and stiffer than normally aspirated. I had a mk1 and the mk2 will never be as chuckable as they are 200kg heavier but still good. I run H&R coilovers on mine with powerflex bushes on 16" wheels and i think its great, lots of people ruin them by putting 17" and larger wheels on, not the way forward.

Last E30 M3 I saw go for 3k was a donor for a tarmac rally car as the shell was in bad shape, and suspension damage, and was in poor shape, buy a car like this and it will easily swallow up all your money!

I've been keeping an eye on prices at the moment as I'm going to be looking for an E30 M3 pretty soon, and 7-8k will buy a nice non evo example, there's 2 well used Evo sports on e-bay at the moment too, with price tags between the 10-13k, just like to add there was an Evo sport sold recently with delivery mileage for 40k......

MozzaITA: If i go out to buy a car with my head the grale will be off my list as there are no grale repair/servicing places around my neck of the woods, in fact I think the closest one is about 30-40 miles away, fine for normal scheduled stuff but if its of the road due to repairs needed that could be a real pain in the ....!
having said that though if on my car buying trip heart kicks the crap out of head then i still may end up with one! :D

MMS: Thanks mate for the info. I will bear them in mind. I think a test drive would be necessary. I often see the older 1990 turbos going fo about £2.5 to 3k. Should these be avoided? I would consider these too as it would leave a lot in the budget for some extras. No body kits or big wheels though, not my sort of thing.

Simon325isport: I think I will definately avoid the lower end of the market M3s. I would be looking to be spending up to 7k but only if i found the right car. How much better was the Evo variant?
Can I take it from your username that you have a 325isport? Is it the E30 or newer?
Any comments about these as they were also on my list?

Hiya mate..there were three variants of evo, first one was a limited run of 500ish I think, with changes to the bodywork in the form of extended front and rear spoilers, the second evolution (evo II) had a white cam cover and inlet plenum with the m-tec stripes, and a power rise from 200bhp to 220 bhp with the aid of replacement cam, pistons, lightened flywheel and and a revised chip, also had a taller diff and also the same extended front and rear spoilers. The 3rd evolution (evo sport) is the daddy of them all it has to be said, and has a lot of changes only an anorak would be able to point them all out ( I'll try lol) Biggest change was an increase in cc from 2.3 to 2.5, with major internal engine upgrades, externally it had front and rear adjustable spoilers, lightweight front and rear bumpers, enlarged front wheel arches, and small things like rubber strips in all the panel gaps to aid aero-dynamics, and skinnier grill vanes to aid air-flow into the engine bay/radiator, recaro bucket seats with red-seat belts, suede steering wheel and gear knob inside, and they only came in red or black.

There's a nice evoII on e-bay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ayphotohosting

As for my car, yes, it's an E30 325i sport, a great all round car fun to drive with rwd, and plenty of torque, though quite different to drive to an M3, M3 has the smaller 4 cylinder engine and better balance, but I hear plenty of stories from dealers about 325i sport drivers trading them in for M3's back in the late 80's early 90's only to return 6 months later wanting theyre sport's back, from this I can only guess that the sport would make a better daily driver.

4k should find you a really nice sport, but be careful as most are falling into the wrong hands and getting ragged and modified, but the good ones are still out there!

See some pics of my car in this thread... http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?p=3745474

Cheers Simon

I'd think £7k would buy you a fairly tidy one, average miles or slightly above with a few things needing doing, like the scuttle which almost always seems to go and will cost around £700-£800 to have fixed properly. Timing chain may or may not need replacing but companies like Muncih Legends have created this myth that if you don't have them done at 100k miles you're engine will go pop. Utter bull - it needs doing when it needs doing, be it 30k or 150k.

Have a look on the M power forums. Well worth going on if you're thinking of one or need questions answered. And speak to proper outfits that know the cars inside out - I used Ajec Racing in Gloucester - excellent service, good value and no unnecessary expense that you get with companies like ML.

Forsale: 1987 BMW E30 M3 - german import in 1998 -Diamond black metallic, full black recaro leather (recent re-trim) 16" evo wheels, bilsteins shocks, eibach springs, full M-tec 2 (inc steering wheel gear knob and handbreak gaiter) been looked after by Mosley Motorsport - 106600 miles, MOT's to match, origional service book - fantastic car throughout, taxed and tested until the end of the year - £6250, based in Derbyshire.

Simon: Thanks mate for all the info. Very useful. Will bear it mind when a decision has been made and I start searching properly. Oh, welcome to scoobynet by the way and nice looking 325i. :) I almost bought a sport last year. During inspection though I found oil leaks from everywhere so walked away. Lovely noise. Exhaust note that is not the oil leaks. :)

CraigH: Thanks mate for your info. At the risk of sounding compeltely ignorant. What's the scuttle? I know what you mean about the timing chains mate, I currently have a saab 9000 turbo and is exactly the same on that. In fact Saab do not even have it as a scheduled replacement, they advise replacement when noisy! and even then they dont harrass you to get it done then and there but within the next 20,000 miles to be on the safe side.

AndyM3: Thank mate. But not ready yet. Good luck with your sale.

Cheers all

Brett

Integrale discussion here;

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=211967

Big mac or quarter pounder with cheese?

Nothing specific...just hungry! yawn!!!

The scuttle is the area under the windscreen, it's a common E30 problem, more so with the M3 as the windscreen is bonded, some say you're better off looking for a car where this has already been done.

Oh and cheers for the welcome!

Si

BH: Thanks for the link.
WM: eh?
Simon: Thanks mate

E30 M3 every time :cool: I still kick myself daily that I bought the Lancia (integrale 16 valve) instead of one of those :(

Not had a good experience with the Lancia then? or simply that you prefered the M3?

Looks like M3 is the way to go.

thanks.

Lancia was very fast & should have been reliable and cheap to run but I was unlucky :(

The M3 is bullet proof compared to an integrale but for me it's the fact that I can't stand 4 wheel drive, nothing wrong with the cars at all.

My head would say M3 :)

If I put the Lancia side by side with the M3 the lancia would have it on looks & speed but the M3 is supposed to be such a good drivers car, the integrale was good but a little too good for my taste :eek: I prefer a fight with a rear drive car ;)

Just to give you another option, what about an Audi ur quattro? You'd be looking at a good 10 valve car for the money and if you get a good one running costs ain't that bad...

Now if Brett had put in ur quattro in the running..then I know what I would be buying!! Can't beat that 5 cilynder burble...

Oh and Brett, I should have posted this up before...but some good info in this link...


http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=8

PaulPalmer: I am actually a bit of a fan of 4wd. I love the surefootedness in the wet and seeing as we are in old blighty this is quite a common occurence. :) The last RWD I had was a mk1 mr2. which was a hell of a lot of fun. so the M3 was on my list from the start. Incidentely mate how are you getting on with your carlton 3000gsi? :)

Dome: Don't tease me mate!!! ;) The audi quattro was definately on my list, with the cars I had on it originally how could I have not included it.....the reason it wasnt on the list on SN was that I thought it would be well over my limited budget of £7k. Can i really get one for under £7k?????? :D :D (of to check out autotrader)

Si: As for the burble mate thats why a wrx/wrx sti had to go on the list too despite it being from a slightly different era to the other classics. Thanks for the link.

Just back from AT. Oh no the Audis are within budget.
How the hell am I going to decide now!?? :D