BLOWN ENGINES ON P1'S
 

JUST TRYING TO SEE IF ITS POSSIBLE TO GET AN INDICATION OF HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED PROBLEMS WITH THE ABOVE. I'VE JUST HAD ONE LET GO ON ME AT 40K. WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED FROM SIMILAR PROBLEMS.

I PERSONALLY KNOW OF AT LEAST 6 OTHER BLOWN ENGINES

FEED BACK APPRECIATED :mad:

Within the last couple of weeks have seen 3 P1's with blown engines. From the lowest mileage of 28k through to 48k miles.

2 out of 3 were unmodified. Though on all occasions the big end shells had given up.....

AFTER SPEAKING WITH A LOCAL SUBARU DEALERSHIP THEIR COMMENT WAS " I WAS LUCKY IT HAD LASTED THAT LONG " . HOW MANY OTHER PRODUCTS WOULD GET AWAY WITH THIS.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE ENGINES ( I'VE HEARD THAT IM ARE AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM AT IT IS LINKED TO THE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM )

http://www.markburr.com/caps_lock.jpg

:)

Funny that b4 you buy one they say, no its very rare to get any major problems with subarus.... look at the press reports.. afterwards, um sorry cant fix your car next week got 2 full engine rebuilds 2 do...
Reading the other thread, doesn't look like the semi closed block and more oil ways in the crank in the new age engines has done much for this prob either..

MAF sensor is my bet. Knowelsy, did you get to strip the block down? Any signs of Det?

MB

I don't know if this helps but I am in the process of replacing big end bearings in mine, it would seem that the clutch but too much pressure on the crankshaft, pulling the crank across and damaging the shells, aswell as damaging the inside of the block and destroying two oil seals in the process.

Probably doesn't apply to these unless they have got a really heavy clutch?

P1s are very sensitive to fuel - their map is from a JDM with a more sensitive retard setting, AFAIK. So really what they want is 102RON fuel. Dropping it to 98RON should be ok, as long as everything else is in perfect working condition (& not modded); specifically, the MAF is a very weak link, & if it starts to underread at the same time as not using full-octane fuel & the whole setup running lean because of free-flowing exhaust, induction kit, etc. the engine will blow. It's not weak, it's just being fed junk.

Agree with Nom..

Also people assume as it is a UK car that you can run it on 95RON.. including some dealers saying that is fine.

Also because of the car it is people buy them and keep them a short time in a kind of "I had one of them" kind of way so they don't care for the car and drive it like a cnut.. no warm up and no warm down and supermarket fuel..

JGM

Are you sure the P1's map is direct from a JDM? I know it's based on a V5 STI, but I'm pretty sure STI/Prodrive adjusted the map to run on SUL quality fuel.

Stefan

Yup - they made it more sensitive to knock. A bit of a cop-out, but it should work, as long as no other potential areas of failure are promoted (such as sub-quality fuel, mods, MAF misreading, etc.)
I've never seen the map, so may be talking poo, but I think this is what those who have actually seen the map said... makes sense for a cheap, easy & effective bit of remapping, I suppose :rolleyes:

P1 ecu fuel, ignition, boost maps etc are identical as STi5. Knock detection is more sensitive which is why its mostly used as a base when remapping the Sti's

bob

Jeezus, that sounds like poor form. I know Prodrive couldn't do much remapping before the Flash 2000 software came along, but I'd have thought they'd have done more from the off :(

Prodrive didn't do anything to the P1 ecu, it was STi afaik. I have some info on some of the work done somewhere that looked at knock retard versus load etc but that was all using the good old 98 ron fuel

bob

Didnt subaru add an insert into the owners manual for the P1 stating that the car needed to be run on 97 ron fuel only?

Tony:D

Tony

Well that would be odd given that wrx's have to be run on '98 ron' - it says so on the inside of the petrol filler area.........

Amazing though really - picked up a new wrx from Spar****s of Botley and the offical Scoob dealer said -'you can run this car on unleaded - no probs!!' - nor did they advise about the running in period in the first 1k miles - however at least I know what fuel to use and how to run in a car - but just think if you've just bought a Scoob for the 1st time - the fact that the main dealer tells you the wrong info and doesnt tell you other important stuff is pretty bad!!

Wonder how many people out there actually use Optimax then in their boggo wrx's!!!

Doesnt really surprise me about the fact that engines go bang when people are not properly informed - ok may be in the small print/manuals - but who reads these!! - just think not everyone who owns a Scoob goes on these sort of sites (some people have a proper life!!!)

Steve

You,ve just spent 20k+ on a car and don,t bother to read the big fat handbook?? I know it's not exactly "Razzle" or "Max Power" but surely a cursory glance when you have a query is a sensible move?
By the way, did'nt Prodrive dangle a couple of those "Broquet" (spelling?) thingies in the tank on P1's to up the octane of the fuel?
JohnD

Why is everyone pointing the finger at the maf/fuel type when the discussion is about crank related failures? Aren't pistons normally the 1st sign of fuelling issues? Surely we are looking at an oil/oilchange procedure related cause...... not meant to sound argumentative, somebody put me out of my misery and tell me why I'm wrong. :confused:

No your not wrong :D
But....
There's more than one way to skin a goose as they say.
Stress on one part of an engine "may" cause a failure in another part of the engine. The design of a piston will be weaker if you stress across it, similar to an egg, same goes to other parts of the engine, you can put lots of pressure on the top of an egg and its very strong, you may put another egg underneath it at an angle, this egg is the same as the first but in a different position, where as the first egg can take the stress in one direction, the second egg fails... stress like electricity finds the weakest part... (possably a little confusing the way i put it though :eek: )

Tony:D

Thanks for that Tony, excellent egg based analogy! :D Isn't it likely there would be some pitting and scarring of the piston on whichever cylinders' shell had let go, if the cause was the maf.....surely if it got to the point where the stress on the shell caused it to fail, the piston would at least show some signs of det?.....and if there were no such signs, would it be safe to assume that there were none-maf related probs/causes?

Fangoria, do we take it that you have parted with your 400bhp sti now then?? ;)

100% Correct, no prodrive involvement on the P1 engine / ECU.

Cheers

Simon

Just to add I did it all by the book on my P1 (warm up, cool down, SUL/Optimax) and it still let go at 30K:( It was one of 3 blown P1's in the Dealer at the same time to be repaired.

Dealer told me they reckoned it was due to a faulty oil pump:rolleyes:

andy

sold my sti....... no chance - just off the road at the moment waiting for AP to diagnose some brake problems for me!

Big end bearings are almost always due to detonation. If this was the root cause of your failure, you can pretty much assume the engine was detting. If the oil pump failed, they'd be one of the first places to show wear, but you'd definitely find it elsewhere as well.

A mate has had 4 let go!

Two went within weeks of each other, both were ECU faults, and resulted in Subaru sending someone from Japan to look at it.

Andy

I dont know much about the P1 map, so im sure Bob / Simon will correct me, but from an uninformed point of view: The P1 blows up just as much as an STi 5 or 6 in this country....? Lets face it, there have been hundreds.

There have been quite a few UK spec 99/00 blow ups too, and most would seem attributable to fuelling issues, rather than poor engine design, or lube starvation.

If you considder a MY99/00 STi running on much lower grade fuel over here, it will very likely be detting to start with. Add a decat on there, and the fuel pump cant keep up at high rpm. Add a MAF sensor, with the reliability of your average Uk train, and you have the recipe for disaster. The P1 can be treated the same as an STi 5/6 in this argument. The Uk spec will be less likely to suffer as it was designed for Uk fuel, but even so, and undetected fuelling fault will get it in the end...

Didn't some of the P1's come with ITG's as part of an "upgrade?" ;) Might be wrong here...

All IMHO...

MB

The amusing bit about it all is how innumerable P1s have their engine replaced - but not their MAF sensors! And then everyone says 2ooo, it blew again, after only two weeks?!". Well, duh, of course it did - something would be wrong if it hadn't.
It's amazing how little the dealers are prepared to use their brains. Or whatever it is they keep in their heads, anyway...:rolleyes:

Exactly Nom....

When I had a 99UK turbo, the MAF was dying, and I was sure it was. Dealer had the select on there and didn't have a clue what to look for. There were 2 others with the same problem, being charged for, for hours of diagnostic work.

Went to PE and sorted it V quick.

Its the refusal to accept the problem and issue a recall that pisses me off.

MB