Gruppe S laminated steel gaskets - can't get
 

For the uppipe joint to the headers a lot of us were using the laminated steel gaskets suggested by Harvey but now when I go for them I get composite gaskets with the same part number, but they are obviously useless.

After my headgasket change, the headers were rebuilt using only one gasket, it was better with two as it is now leaking, but I can't get any.

Suggestions?

In fact I'm sick of it leaking. What is the definitive solution? With the engine still in it would be a struggle to refit/remove with them welded up? What about thicker flanges? What about triple bolt flanges?

slip jointed up-pipe and an Andy F. job on the collector.

spacers to drop the up-pipe from the bracket that bolts to the heads. Perhaps even allow a certain amount of movement at the top up and down.

Paul

I did that after mine failed the first time. No problem since.

Ring Hayward and Scott

They should be able to do you a 3mm spacer gasket - say its for those crap Gruppe S Headers and they should still have the dimensions!!!

I got them to make me a 6mm and a 3mm - they also do 1mm jobbies (or is it 1.2mm)

The 6mm was too big, the 3mm has stopped the leaks for the time being - so thats a big thumbs up to Harvey who told me to get in touch with Hayward

If the fackers leak again then the up-pipe is going in the bin and I'll just gte Hayward and Scott to sort me a proper up-pipe - the problem with the ****ty GRuppe S ones is that you have the problem with the not so flat flanges and then they make an up-pipe that aint long enough - !!!!!!

Wish I'd gone for HKS in the 1st place - a lot dearer but I'd have saved in the long run.......................

This is a PITA. T-uk and I did this and it was OK for a while, uppipe had no brackets in the end. Then Rally Colin refitted all the brackets, then another garage removed one of them.

Everyone that has had this thing apart has had their own idea on how to "fix" it or rather undo what we'd already sorted :(

Maybe I'll get the uppipe bracket spaced down again.

Still need new gaskets though. Ideas?

Thanks Steve, I'll give H&S a ring. Sort of spacing it from the collector end?

Steve: When you "throw away " your Gruppe 'S' up-pipe I'll give you more than scrap value and postage. ;)

I tried several combinations of spacers, 1.5 & 3mm, and different gaskets with no success. The flanges were made off flat on at least three occaisions but they did not stay flat once they had some heat through them. I've now converted them to a three bolt, thicker flange with a short spigot. Can't tell you if this has worked as the car is not due back on the road for a few weeks.

RCM can now supply headers with a three bolt flange which should improve the prospect of making it seal from the start.

group s
 

Got mine fitted very well by P20 SPD (steven D) mail him Im sure he will help !!!!!

H&S slip jointed up-pipe works well if you ask me, and it would be the long term fix. If you want to sell the headers to replace them with the ones with smaller collector, some people will pay well for them (ie those looking to run large custom up-pipes on 2.5 big turbo setups).

Paul

Mine seem to seal when hot. I suppose that is better than leaking when hot :rolleyes:

simply weld the fooker up.. no gasket to leak then.

It will make fitting awkward.. but...

David

David, can you advise how to refit? Does the engine need to come out to do it? If not what needs to be removed?

Method of fitting both Alans and mine

Bolt headers to heads
Bolt up pipe to headers with gasket supplied and bloody tight.
Bolt turbo to up pipe.

Differences

On Alans car i think i didnt remove the brackets as the lined up spot on and sat flush to the top of the up pipe, so used all studs and nuts at the top of the up pipe.

On mine, i already had the bracket near the oil feed pipe removed, as i regarded it as a PITA when fiddling with the turbo etc. For the bracket that mounts to the head and block just over the oil return pipe, i made the hole for the up pipe stud a little larger to allow the up pipe to go in without being forced.

This i think was crucial on mine as it allowed some lateral movement, but i did not bolt the up pipe to the bracket, just left it located. So mine was bolted solely to the turbo.

I did over 2500 miles and there where no hints of any leaks.

Judging by alans post, the are no leaks on his either.

I think each one is different, but the main difference between alans and mine is Phase 1 and Phase 2 engines, i wonder if the turbo support brackets are slightly different?

John so long as you have enough clearance under the car to rotate the headers, and can lift the engine at that side, then should not be a problem fitting as a whole.

Thanks, they are leaking when hot as well.

Think I'll get them welded up :D :rolleyes:

Changing to 3 hole flange may be a good thing if you don't fancy welding them up. That place in Hillington i told you about holds various configs of flanges which will be suitable, only thing is they are mild steel and quite thick compared to original.
Don't know if it's feasible to mismatch material in such a hot area.

Won't be expensive though.

I have no issues with the later 'V2' GruppeS headers with the cast collector, solid H&S uppipe and 1 triple layer gasket.

Andrew...

John,

Im using a composite & a Steel Laminate gasket from Graham Goode. Listed on misc engine parts
So far a feew 1000's miles ( & loads of abuse) & dare i say No Leaks

Dean :D

The Q is do you have a big or small bore up-pipe... ???



Jan

Just bought a set of gruppe-s headders second hand, how can you tell the difference between the V1 (with problems) and the V2 (without problems)?
My set has come with an uppipe with a flexible joint in it, is this the variety that is causing all the problems?

Dan.

As far as the headers go the v2 ones have a cast collector with a very think flange to the uppipe, IIRC it's about 12mm.

The flexi-uppipe shouldn't cause you a problem, I sold on mine as I was more than happy with the fit of my current uppipe which is medium size :D

Andrew...

Erm, Good question as i bought mine off somebody who had purchased off the group buy but not fitted, Uppipe is of the solid type & is a bigger bore then the Standard Subaru, approx 2" bore from memory. It leaked like a bast@rd at first from the top of the flange (Engine Side)
Dean

These buggers are a nightmare

I took note of eveything that was sed - the up-pipe bracket spacing, etc, etc ut it still kept blowing - on mine the flanges were not flat but they we5e not far out - me and Dave Harries (Big BEAR) checked that

The solution for me (and Harvey) was very simple - putting a nice big gasket between the up-pipe and the headers themselves - we got a 3mm gasket plus two of the 1mm gaskets in their in total - so 5mm is about right - tried to get the 6mm jobbie in but was just too tight.

I've done about 750 miles of energetic driving(I'm not a slow driver - in fact I was surprised when I hit nearly 175 the other day on the speedo - private road of course officer!!) and so far they are not leaking!!!

The spacers cost me about £10 on total.... thats the 6mm and 3mm and p&p

It took about 10 minutes to refit - i.e take out the bolts and jam the spacer in there then rebolt up!!! - so no serious faffing about

Harvey has all the dimensions that are required on the Gaskets but H&S should still have

If you still have problems then the flanges must be really bad!! - but if this doesnt sort it then cripes then what can I say...............

I think I've spend about an additonal £1k in time/petrol on these things - now if Gruppe S can sort out a proper length of up-pipe and get the flange material ok then yes this is good!! - the flexi-pipe is no good for me as it restricts power (not that I have much!!! - but I will in the next few months.... 500bhp will be nice for once!! - about time too)

Rgds

I've been in touch with H&S who I'll be getting to do me a 3mm spacer. Because of the difficulties in getting steel gaskets they suggested making some copper gaskets, but they don't have the dimensions. If anyone has the dimension of the bore on the v.1 large bore Gruppe-S collector that would be great, I'm trying to find any old gaskets I might have to use as a template as well.

john i have a gasket, but i am sure mine is v2 one, so probably not much use

Thanks Steven, it is the larger bore one I need.

John

Rally Collin has just had a 3mm copper gasket with crush ring made for my car, for the Gruppe S headers from the first group buy. He might have the dimensions available.

Cheers

Peter

Well John if you get the dimnsion to H&S I will buy some gasket's also and spacers.. to use on my Big bore set...

Jan