Guys and Gals,

I am all questions at the moment.

Since I've had my new APs I've noticed that the front of the car dives a HUGE amount under heavy braking....for example...before the esses down the back straight at donington from approx 125mph. My car never used to suffer from this...I guess its down to the huge stopping force generated by the new brakes.

I am keen to resolve this problem and believe I have the following choices:

* some form of stiffer/lowering spring set such as Ebachs.
* Prodrive handling Pack (bilstein struts and dampers)
* complete new adjustable struts and springs (the expensive option)...oodles to choose from DMS, APEX, LEDA, CUSCO, TIEN etc.
* Rollbars and/or solid links
* Anti lift kit
* a combination of the above.
* cheap option : don't brake as late or as hard LOL

I know people have gone thru similar problems and had various different results.

I am keen that the car still remains quite composed on the road (i.e. I don't want stupid hard dampers which are only at home on the track/gymkarnas http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif).

Can anyone shed any light on what works and what doesn't ?

Regards

Ian

Hi there Ian U hippie U!
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
The only thing that'll decrease nose dive is harder springs/dampers. ARB's won't do any difference at all since they only affect "sideways load". And the ALK is said to (maybe) even increase nose dive due to the increased caster (remember it's supposed to decrease nose lift during accel, you very seldom get something for free....ask Tuckshop... http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif ) that's just a "hazy" theory I've read somewhere.

Unfortunately a car that doesn't dive during hard braking WILL be harsh on regular roads, the trick IMHO is to find a combo that works for you (forget abt the missus - she hasn't paid for the thing has she?).

I found one in Pete C's LedaB combo. Lovely stuff, for "decent" money.

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

Regards

/Jerry - Sweden

Hey Ian..

Indeed.. the only cure is either:

Uprated springs... or more increased braking on the back..

Stiffer struts shouldnt be used for dive control... they should be used dampening and rebound.

J.

If the ALK decreases lift during accel, it's bound to increase dive during braking - it can't be that your brakes are in tits up mode?

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

The only thing that'll make a really noticeable difference is stiffer suspension.

I could always take the AP's off yer hands...got some MY00 4-potters for U here. Problem solved for free, I'll even pay for the shipping.

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Regards dudes, and a merry X-mas

/Jerry - Sweden

[This message has been edited by SecretAgentMan (edited 21 December 2000).]

cheers folks...

yep...sam....I can see where you ALK theory comes from. The caster angle is changed so the car doesn't lift on accelleration...but the side effect of this has to be increased dive/or more tendancy to dive under braking...I guess its like moving the pivot point on a seesaw (der...its late...)

I will seriously have to consider my options...it sounds like to could be expensive...

thats the problem with these car thingys...you think you've actually solved a problem...you haven't....you've just moved it somewhere else...next it will be slicks...then new wheel bearings...then extreme craivings for more power....where does it all end LOL

J...maybe we can talk about all this stuff next time we all meet up.

In the mean time I shall be doing lots of diving (oo-er ;D)

Ian.

Ian

I tend to disagree, since having ALK fitted i have noticed a decrease in the amount of dive on heavy braking.

Why not give the HKS springs a go, rather than the Eibachs, for that ultra low stance!

Dont ask me why, as you know, i`m not that techie http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Still as per usual you`re more than welcome to try my car again, has all the above fitted except for AP`s, yet http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Ceya soon

Paul

[This message has been edited by WALKER (edited 21 December 2000).]

You need adjustable suspension then you can have different settings for the track and road.

ChrisW.

Ian (yer hippy http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif)

I agree with Paul here, ALK should actually decrease dive as well as lift. I think it does do quite a good job of this.

If the dive is currently excessive, I would say your front brakes are too good compared to the rears, maybe see about doing something about that.

Not suggesting you actually do this but has anyone played with the brake bias on a road car after fitting big front brakes ? Maybe there is scope to add a little rear bias to improve things without throwing instability into the mix ?

Cheers

Ian

I've got CUSCO dampers and HKS springs on my car, and you wouldn't like it because it is HARD (about 1/2 inch movement on rear, and 1/4 movement on front, when stationery). It does however have virtually no dive or body roll. Superb on track (if there aren't too many big bumps), cack on the road. Most of the Japanese suspension "upgrades" will be like this (they have very smooth roads apparently). I could probably help you out if you want some cheap part worn slicks for your next trackday, I wouldn't driver on treaded tyres now unless there is no choice, the difference is phenomenal.

Ian, stick to muff diving and you wont have to worry about brakes...... http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Ian

Go for the Leda http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Slightly crashing at slooowww speed, ocaisonal road noise (brrrrr!) & a bit "wollowy" on yomps. This is with standard ride height & softest damping. Springs are obviously increased.

Against this is FLAT round roundabouts, increased road-holding, less brake diving etc etc. PTMW! is on rails http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

The wife is still none the wiser http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

If it works for me, it'll work for you http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

Stay away from those P1:s Ian. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Forgot to say...

When you get on track, wack up the damping & wahey!!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

See you @ Donno http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Cheers guys...

I'll let you know the outcome as and well I do something about it.

It may not actually be an issue as I could be looking at a different car (again) pretty soon.

Ian

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by IWatkins:
<B>I would say your front brakes are too good compared to the rears

Ian[/quote]

Mme? Am I missing something hear?
To my mind, the reason to improve rear brakes, would be to enable you to decelorate quicker. If you are decelorating quicker, more weight will be transfered to the front of the car, which would lead to more nose dive, not less.

Ian, ya hippy.......

So to resolve this problem, you bought a P1, very cool move dude http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Paul