While the audophiles are here, could I voice a feeling?

Would I be right in saying much modern audio equipment is not as good as the older high-end stuff you got in the early 80's?

Just That I have an early 80's top-end Sony amp, and a pair of ancient floorstanders with SEAS drivers and I really struggle to find anything that'll out pace it in terms of sound quality, and it's ability to fill a large room with a nice loud rich sound. OK the amp has been tweeked by using later high-rated trasistors, but otherwise it original. Rough figures are about 35watts RMS per channal

I tried modern systems rated at over 100watts RMS per channal costing over £1000, and they just don't seem to cut it. And seem to sound clinical in comparison. Goes to show watts mean eff all - even with the THD measuremenst etc.

[Edited by ALi-B - 11/3/2003 7:55:27 PM]

What would be a good starter set up for regular use?

I was thinking along the lines of Leak Stereo 20 driving a pair of Quad ESL 57's but is there better stuff out there for around the same money?

Also, I don't know much about hooking up modern kit to the valve stuff, I presume I need some kind of pre-amp but don't really know.

I'm bored of my Bose Lifestyle system, I want a more dynamic sounding set up, but I want to be able to use it a lot and nothing sounds as good as a valve set up, IMHO.

Agree valves have a unique sound, but must be partnerd with compatible speakers,,,,

I trialed my Tannoy dual concentrics with some valve amps, and the bass was to overpowering, modern componentry was far more compatible...

If you want cheap,,, i believe maplin used to do a very basic valve amp

Mart

hmmm. no surprise there, then. 'Speakers for valve amps need to be reasonably sensetive as they will not be getting the current that transistor amps put out. i'm still in transistor land myself (the best neighbourhood, though :)), but i am thinking about getting a valve set-up for upstairs, when i can afford it.

I don't think you're being quite fair on 'modern' components by judging them based on a Bose Lifestyle system - hardly the pinnacle of transistor-based hi-fi. Tiny boxes plus a big sub will inherently give poor response in the range to which the ear is most sensitive.

I confess that I find the price tags on truly high end 'audiophile' kit terrifying, and so far I've stayed well away. However, I have chosen my the kit I do have carefully and I'm really happy with it - although there's no point in my listing it here, since it's so much down to personal taste.

Book an appointment with a good hi-fi shop and take up some time in their demo room. I've thrown out expensive, well-reviewed gear and fallen in love with other components during such a session. Price has nothing to do with it - although my favourite speakers are obviously the floorstanders in my lounge, my second favourite pair is still the one I bought for £100 as a student. I've heard some real dogs with four-figure price tags.

If you are after spending about £3k on a starter system I'd have a listen to the Audio Note Level Zero setup (probably as cheap as it gets for a half decent valve setup). It consists of a CD/DAC, pre amp, two monoblocs and a pair of floorstanders which unfortunately look like coffins but if they're anything like their other standmounts will sound fantastic. Bear in mind that a lot of pre amps are now line level only so you'll need a phono pre amp if you want to play any vinyl.

As above though it's probably best to visit a decent dealer and audition some different combinations.

i think it really depends on what sport of sound you like. i have NAD stuff, then Cyrus, then some weird bits and pieces that included a sony pre and an alchemist power, now have Meridian. I loved the sound of all of that stuff. Some people think that my Meridian set-up sounds cold and clinical but i love it cos it is true to the recording and the level of detail is amazing. the downside is that ****e, compressed recordings with crap production values sound exactlty like that, but the upside is that good recordings sound like you are in the same room as the musicians.

Must admit, my musical set-up is to have it sound as if the music was being played live. Plus I like it loud..very loud! :D So I require an amp with a fair amount of poke and sensitive speakers

Ok

If you did a search on EL57's and Stereo 20's here on Scoobynet you will find many posts..some very long from me about my Hifi I used to own.

Micromega T-Drive CD TRANSPORT
AudioNote Dac 2
leak stereo 20 re built running in tri-mode (8-12 watts per side)
Done by the guys from "Classique sounds" So the finest stereo 20 experts in the world....and maybe also 57 's.
Quad 57,s complete with stands and a few mods by the above .
Cables by Kimber and Cord

All bought second hand and after seeing so many pairs of duff speakers!! took me over a year to find gooduns.

If you find a good leak with matching valves buy it!!!
get a good passive or powered pre amp and a minimum of lets say marantz 63 "Ki" and some quads....and sit back and listen...

You will need room...plenty of it. The quads like been miles away from rear walls.(Thats why I had to sell)

The stereo sweet spot is small.......... But the quality of the sound is awsome. Also the power delivery....Forget all this 1000000000 watts stuff. you just dont need it.


I realy realy realy suggest you get in contact with "Classique" give them a visit. They are real hifi people without the krap of contract to sell certain makes....

I made a big profit when i sold mein. I believe the speakers are now in Israel!!!

Luke - where is Classique Sounds, and what would you expect to pay for a decent stereo 20?

The room I am thinking about putting the stuff in is about 17' x 12' - does that sound big enough?

PS don't tell the strife that the "posh" sittingroom is going to be adorned by a pair of speakers in the middle of it!

yummy yummy

Give paul a ring............ he realy is a good guy.

this looks very nice worth a bid..

Rememer.A modern Cd/dac will have a much larger output than a classic amp input is designed for........ Its not a problem..just a few £ will sort it. if you use a CD with digital output you could run it straight into the Leak stereo 20. (I am using a 63 Ki and love it..for the money NOTHING touches it.Around £140.00 second hand mint complete with papers etc

is it a bit cheap? or is that the sort of money they fetch? am tempted to bid on it but all his other stuff seems to be medical equipment. plus i always distust PEOPLE WHO USE CAPSLOCK. maybe i'll take a punt on it...

i want to use it with a record deck - will i need a separate phono stage? i bid up to £180 on that leak but have been outbid. i would carry on bidding but it is supposed to be a "long term" project rather than a "blow another months wages - again" project :)

maybe not the best thing to buy two months before the baby's due :p

could always warm the bottles on it....

I reccon around £300 for it.... But it could be worth it if the valves are all good.

With a good turntable...I used a Giro with offboard power supply etc the sound will be fantastic.You will need some type of phono amp to match..But these are cheap. A good pair of 57's will cost around £500-700.

True to a certain extent but I agree with ProperCharlie. Really depends on what you like. I love the valve sound but solid state can sound equally good if you choose carefully and adjust your ears a bit.

IMHO if you like what you have then save your money and keep it. Upgrading hi-fi is a nightmare once you get really into it and is difficult to keep under control (like modding cars I suppose) as there's always that next tweak/upgrade :(

ProperCharlie - I agree to the extent that Watts mean almost nothing to sound quality, and that having a good THD etc measurement doesn't mean it will be a sound you like.

I disagree that systems don't sound as good as they used to. Things like CD players have come on massively - compare say a Marantz CD50SE to the 63KI, for example (both £400-£500 at some point in their life cycle, but perhaps 5-10 years apart), and there is a serious improvement. With speakers, amps etc, the change isn't as marked, but still considerable. Listen to the latest entry level NAD amp versus an original 3020 and tell me things haven't come on a bit. With serious stuff (as in £1k for a CD player or pre-amp counting as cheap), then it's more down to what style of sound suits an individual, but technology has allowed real steps forward in some kit. Admittedly, some old designs are still the best at certain "styles" of presentation - the QUAD electrostatics being a prime example. All IMHO.

Personally, I believe with the right electronics, you can get a lot of the benefits of valve sounds without some of the compromises (I believe my ATC power amp is an example). However, it will never sound truly like a valve.

Sorry, when I was on about watts etc. I wasn't on about the sound quality - thats a seperate issue. More the capability of producing loud volume levels, whilst still maintaining a good degree of quality and a satifying sound :- I like upsetting the neighbours ;)

Quads 57's

Dont worry about the treble panel.... for a couple of hundred MAX these could be running like new....maybe less. If they go for less than £400.00 I would be suprised. Nice colour grills also.

The Company that he reccomends are a group of Hifi nutters in Coventry who do most of the work for Classique. These guys are the best.

Copland is a really good compromise between valve warmth/clarity and transistor power. Really cracking kit IMHO.

Its worse than the curse of spending money on Crack..... Once you start....

But for less than a grand..That stereo 20 + the 57's a good turntable.(Project etc) and a preamp Nothing will touch it for the money.

very tempting set-up Luke. I've got a Linn Axis with a trichord phono stage at the mo, but was considering buying a michell until i had to spend loads of money on a new bathroom :rolleyes:.

those quads aren't exactly wife friendly, are they?

i think she would definitely notice thier arrival...

PC

Put the wife in her place. Its a mans right to have bloody great big speakers that takes up 1/2 the livingroom. You have mentioed to her that inside is 6500volts of power havent you??????????? (Did you know?? Very dangerous if you have little kids.) and that she must never turn them off. Your turntable is veeeeeery nice. If I had the money I would buy the stuff and put it into storage. Trouble is wife had £1400.00 moutain bike last week...so no £££ around.

Just sit her down and explain....

If she plays up....Threaten to buy her a Dyson!!!

done that already!!! don't think she knows how to turn it on in any case.

are the 6500v readily accessible? don't want a fried nipper on my hands :(

I'm lucky my hearing is screwed from year of bad car stereos, or else this place maybe taking all my money!! :eek:

"Audio Freaks" are major Crack dealers.......................

You just wont stop spending money if they get their hands on you...

Good people but a bit "try this chocolate spread in your ears...Its tightens up the bass" types

whatever you do, don't go here.

i've been avoiding it for several years.

PC

going to start a argument here..!! They are Ok ..In London the "Cornflake shop" is much better.Also Grahams

i got hacked off with grahams cos of their attitude over the 'phone. at the time i had a very good but old sony pre and an alchemist odin power. the volume pot was going on the sony so i wanted to buy a new pre amp. i tried to explain this to some **** at grahams, and he basically said "come down here and buy some naim (or might have been another brand) kit or p*ss off". he couldn't have been less interested. that said when i took my turntable in there (before this telephone conv!) the technician took great time and effort to set it up with a new cartridge. i have never been to the cornflake shop, although the TT came from there originally. i bought it second hand (£250, mint, in about 1990 with the akito arm and a very good audio technica cart) and the box still had the delivery sticker on it.

why do you say they are better? grahams have little or no valve gear and a limited range of manufacturers. that one duff phone call lost them 5k+ in sales. i ended up going to a branch of audio t which isn't really a proper hi-fi shop but they gave me as long as i wanted to demo kit. i was in there for about 2 hours when i demo'd amps and cd, and then a year or so later for about 3 hours when i demo'd speakers. when it came to the speakers i think i had pretty much exhausted their range. the cyrus cls 70s are very good but i would have pushed the boat out if they had anything that merited it.

nice people to deal with in any case.