My UK engine on standard internals made 2.1 times the wheel power (278 WHP) of a standard car (132 WHP) and twice the power of a decatted car (139 WHP) on the same rollers. I think you'll be OK with whatever you are planning if you use the right bolt ons and it is tuned properly.

[Edited by john banks - 11/1/2003 11:45:07 AM]

Good

Amazing that the uk gearboxes cant cope with a small power hike to 360bhp :p:p:p:p;)

Hope you didnt pay much for a second hand sti jobbie

Hope mine will survive for as long as I have the car!!!

[Edited by Fangoria - 11/3/2003 12:32:48 PM]

Just a quick question. Have just bought a 97 R Impreza turbo, it was RR @ well lane last friday and recorded 257bhp and 238lbft.

Only modifications is chip running at a peak of 15psi. DV and cat back exhaust.

Im thinking about de-catting and adding a HKS induction kit, i would imagine with a remap i would be in the region of 290+bhp.

My question is, would anything else need changed, ie would the standard intercooler be suitable for 290+hp

I'd be careful, better not to think of things like intercoler, moreso the engine and crank, as this has to take the power also, and those units are not too reliable once it looses oil pressure,its a case of as soon as it sounds sick, its too late.
it may be better to consider getting the engine bottom end reworked first before trying for more bhp.

For some reason i always thought the impreza engine would handle up to or around 300hp before spending silly money on conrods, crank, pistons etc.

I suppose the engine was initially designed at 208bhp so 300hp would be nearly a 50% increase.

What have other members took there cars to without bottom end strengthening?

I run over 300bhp with a standard TMIC and internals. (everthing else uprated though)

I have an STI v3. Stock except for full Magnex decat and BlitZ boost controller. RR @ 314 bhp/289 lbs ft.
It is seriously hill climbed at 1.3 bar, thrashed to red line and all that . Still OK. friends RA runs Gems etc and has 350 bhp, all ok.
Graham.

MY00 Euro turbo (stock internals) FE TD05, FMIC running 1.5 bar - trackday toy that's used properly when it's used, done 30000 km's on 1.5 bar now.

Not dynoed, but it goes pretty well. ;)

/J

You don't need to touch the engine internals unless you fancy totally wasting a load of money.

There are hundreds of people on here with WELL over 300bhp on standard UK internals.

And forget remapping yet. Especially if you plan further mods. The OEM ECU is very capable up to a point, plus remap options on the 97-98 cars are limited unless you want to spend over a grand. And yes, the standard intercooler can hack 300bhp but for any more consider upgrading.

My UK97 has done 344bhp and 295lbsft on Well Lane's rollers many times and it has standard internals and ECU and is driven everyday.

Rich

That's all i needed to hear mate. So the car should be okay for a full decat and induction. Was hearing on needing to change intercooler @ 280bhp+

Crank should be good for about 500bhp!!!!

Dont think that Harvey has changed his?? - I have not

I went internal at 360bhp but maybe you'll be ok above this - more a question of how longs a piece of string.......... A selection have now got around 400bhp on standard Internals.........

You have a huge amount to go before you need to think of going internal..........................

Engines that tend to go bang at lower levels have had very poor maps/unleaded fuel - just make sure that once you do start mapping (to get the best possible performance from the car) it is done by someone well known in the Scooby community - dont just take it to a 'performance' garage as many just dont have a clue........ even ones who claim to have 400+ bhp demonstrators...........

and dont drive it at a constant 140-150 on the motorway for a long time, put in crap fuel, change oil infrequently etc - as your just waiting for something to go bang!

Subaru cranks with minor mods and different bearings have been proven at over 500bhp.

You can have forged cranks made but they are expensive..

David

I suggest it depends on the map in the chip :)

Internals have been shown to be far stronger than thought a year or so ago, but only if they remain det free. If the chip is of unkown origin I'd suggest a knock and lambdalink to monitor things closely. The chip may only be suitable for 100RON Japanese fuel.

I intend to go to 340bhp on standard uk internals. I'm stopping there to avoid a weekly gearbox replacement after that.

Knocklink, lamdalink and boost gauge are all things i wouldn't go without.

As for the intercooler i noticed a big difference (i'd say about 20bhp) just from changing to an APS top mount, on stock boost.

Are the Gearboxes in the UK cars a lot weaker than say the sti ones

Mines an sti and hasnt given me any problems at all - however I dont take it on track and dont do stupid launches

I'm hoping it will have no problem with up to 450bhp

Yes they are Steve.

I've been through my fair share of UK and WRX boxes at well below your power (5 to date) :eek:

Putting an STi5 box in the white car next for exactly that reason.

Rich

I think the UK gearboxes are fine - depends on the driver! I'm running the MY00 standard (& original) clutch, gearbox & internals at 400+ for the past 6 months, and 350+ for a year before that, & nothing untoward has happened to anything yet, but I don't do standing starts, any clutch or gear slamming, etc. which I think may make all the difference :)

I thought it was everyone else's driving as well nom, I've not been in a car with a Scooby driver who is kinder to the box than myself, my changes are pretty slow and methodical, once the torque was going up I was REALLY nice to it and did not miss any changes. I used Syntrax and it just went within a week or running 1.5 bar. This was on the original clutch.

john,

I need to give you some lessons ;) ,you must lose seconds with those changes of yours:p

Yeah but JB saves HOURS on replacing the gearbox:)

John

You sure your only 29 and not 79???? - you been using a younger double? :p

LOL

Nom - I must have missed this one :confused: which rolling road was this on and when ? Can I possibly see a copy of your RR printout :)

cheers

Andy

Na, no rolling road - don't believe they come up with sensible figures - I use the weighing the car/log-in-two-directions/calculate method. Seems more repeatable... but who knows what the size of the horses are, hence I'm a bit vague :)
Anyway, rather more than the 290bhp in question :D

Wouldnt @ the wheels figure from a RR be accurate though??

nom,

what mods,turbo and boost at the top end do you run?

I think that deltadyno is very repeatable and an excellent tuning aid, much more so than a rolling road. It does tend to read a bit higher than our local rollers at Star performance though.
deltadyno compares to Star a bit like Well Lane compares to Powerstation.
No surprise that Powerstation and Star have the same rollers !

Andy

The ATW figures can easily be wrong too - change the tyre pressure, load the car up, move the rollers a smidgen this way & the numbers will change. There's doubtless other stuff too, but I'm no rolling road buff :)
As Andy says, calcs do the job nicely. And you don't need to book time, pay, etc. Much more useful!
Erm, mods - a few :) APS CAK, MRT inlet pipe, APS FMIC, TMI whatnot turbo, HKS manifold, LP up-pipe, BPM DP, 3" H&S 'custom' mid/BB, uprated fuel pump/FPR w 550s running @ 3.8bar, can't remember the plugs but a bit colder than usual, umm, Link. I think that's it for the 'going faster' stuff. Oh, Forge recirc if that's important (ha!). 1.4 bar boost all the way up, although I don't often use it... About to stick on an Aquamist setup too, and have given up with the Link boost 'control' so am going to give an Apexi AVC-R a go. Andy seemed to sort out Harvey's car very nicely with one of them, so thought I'd see if I could do the same (disappears into a corner & giggles at himself for even thinking he might be able to :rolleyes::D)

The pre99 boxes are only held on with 4 bolts whereas the 99-00 have 8 IIRC. This is bound to make for an inherently less fragile setup.

There was a report I read a while back about flexing of the box casing on early cars running big torque. Seem to remember this was causing separation of the gears and hence failure.

As for driving style, I'm a bit like JB, very respectful of the transmission, no racing starts, no 1/4 mile days, but it does get a good slapping through the gears on the back roads.

Nom, would be interesting to see what yours did on a RR as a comparison. Do you not fancy it?

Rich

Might do a RR one day, but I don't believe their numbers mean much, and I'm not 'competitive' enough to be interested about how my car fairs against others!
If there's a weekend with little going on, I might give it a go :)