Can you enlighten me beyond the blurb below:

http://www.kw-gmbh.de/e_version/

[Edited by john banks - 11/8/2002 11:32:13 PM]

John two friends here with DMS Gold 40 have very good results, similar or better comfort than OEMs while the car is perfect for B roads, corners etc and you know first hand our roads:)!
Although I don't know their settings but as the DMS coilovers provide 30 different positions for bump/rebound is very easy to cover any driving condition, they aren't cheap though...!
If you want I can send you their mail in order to contact them and ask their opinions about.
Cheers
JIM

PS: If I had the money the DMS are first in my priorities, I was very happy with the Prodrive Prof kit I had before few months but not in bumpy roads etc where it was bouncy and some times very annoying. I have heard very good comments for the DMS also from Simon de Bank, Mike Scoobymania etc and I think they know more than I know! (Edited to put the correct name Simon de Bank in place of MellowYellow!)

[Edited by JIM THEO - 11/10/2002 12:05:03 PM]

What do you recommend?

Anyone tried Spax? I know they are considered an inferior brand.

Heard mixed opinions about Avo, Bilsteins.

Something that would adjust to OEM softness or even softer for long trips would be nice. I drive on some icy, leafy, rutted, off camber, potholed roads and farm tracks quite often :D

KW's :)

http://www.kwsuspensions.com/kw_suspm.htm :D

I have a question about these coil over damper kits, regardless of brand...

When they get tired, as the enevitively will, can they be rebuilt, the reason I ask is my Leda B kit has just had it's n'th rebuild (I got about 45k miles out of the fronts and 20k out of the rears between rebuilds) and I assume that every one elses kits will at some stage need the dampers rebuilding.

Now with Leda, Koni, Bilstien, Proflex, Ohlins and I guess AVO, I know there are places in the UK who will rebuild the dampers (or replace the inserts), but what do you do with DMS (Australian), Cusco, HKS (both Japanese), KW (German?) and so on? Do you have to take them off and ship them back to their country of origin for a rebuild?

IIRC Richard Dowsett (dowser) has a set of KW V3's. May be worth dropping him a mail, I believe he had tried other brands and was most impressed by the KW's.

Re rebuilds, I believe the AVO's are rebuildable as are the upmarket TrakSpax but I believe most of the others 'road' type units are throw away items !

On the Rebuild front, one would hope that anything over 500 quid would be rebuildable, or at the very least be capable of having the inserts replaced!

I for one would not be a happy bunny if I hard forked out 1400 quid or so for a set of coil over dampers and springs to be told 50k miles (less if you plan on running slicks on track days) later that I'd have to buy new ones :eek:

One comment, one question.

John, before considering DMS, as suggested by Jim, I would suggest you have a look at some of the postings on the North American Subaru Owners Club regarding DMS coilovers. Although I've not had any personal experience with DMS, the many comments I've read about questionable reliability and service would have me thinking twice before acquiring some.

http://www.i-club.com/

This may seem like a really dumb question, but why do most coilovers need a rebuild every 20 or 30k and decent quality "normal" struts (OEM or whatever) are good for 80k or so? (Then, of course, you throw them away)

Cheers everyone.

Tim I think AVO are re-building the DMS stuff. They used to be the UK importers for the stuff.

Dan

Interesting questions!
As far as I know DMS (and some other brands) use Bilstein or Koni inserts.
In my town is registered one of the authorised Bilstein services that can support any type of replacement parts and services for Bilstein units, I wonder does the DMS can be repairable from any Bilstein (or Koni etc) service as it looks difficult to send the coilovers back to Australia?
By the way Power Engineering sells DMS as Scoobymania and some others Subaru enthusiasts do, so it's ineresting to have their comments about!
JIM

You might want to check with Mellow, he's had problems with his DMS and has also had handling problems with Bilsteins PSS9

Mark

John,
am just about to fit AVOs to my STi so will let you know what the results are.
cheers,
simon:D

I have been relaible informed by a KW dealer (who asked why would you need to get them rebuilt?) that they offer a 2 day turnaround on rebuilds...although you do have to send them off to them, so the shipping will add to this...not that bad really :D

For those who interested today I received a mail from DMS that tells me they recently release a new version of their 40mm coilover that is more reliable from the older kit in case anyone plan to buy it : "...we recommend that you buy the latest spec so that you can be one of the many happy DMS customers..."
JIM

Can confirm the AVO is rebuildable, and seem to perform well, however they lack in certain quality issue to do with details on the fit and such things as brake hoses. Still good for the money IMHO. P20SPD's car seems still quite refined for the passengers, but well under control. Harder springs would be required for serious track use I think, as they are only 250fr 200rr as standard, which is less than the later STIs.

Am thinking similar things myself, and if buying new, I would recommend NOT buying anything from japan, as the current trend is it requires shipping there and back for rebuild, or spares to do it yourself and very expensive. I can supply further details by mail if required.

Stephen Done has a set of DMS, so perhaps you should ask him John. He said he would prefer the harder spring option for spirited driving, so that would include track use.

I would point you to motorsportworld (I'm not linked, usual disclaimers blah blah blah) as they are in scotland and can get a wide range of bits. Check the website, at the bottom for the impreza page. Colin there is also a dealer for the KW stuff too.

I have heard a couple of bad reports about the Bilstien PSS9 kits, in paticular they have inadequate travel in the shock and the valving is not right.

At least with coilovers, the choice of spring rates is huge, but progressive springs are less common. Eibach do some progressive tender springs that can be used in series with the main spring to give a progressive setup that would be easier on the road. Although I beleive the Spax kit comes with progressive springs as standard.

Possibly the best value for money kit is the to-be-released TSL coilover kit, if it ever comes out properly. The fact that it will come with a guarantee, even covering track days is appealing, but performance, who knows?

Tim's comment about rebuilds seems paticularly apt for Leda users, who seem to be blighted with rebuilds like an engine needs fresh oil. Stand still too long, rebuild. Work em hard, rebuild. And so on...

Take your pick!

Paul

Hi John,

I personally bought a set of ledas for my wrx 01.
So far i'm very happy with them. They are good all rounders (375/275 as leda originally fits) and fast on track. The immediate feel is a car very light: you turn the car turns wheightless but confidence inspiring. It's a little bumpy on slow speeds (12 clicks front , 8 back). To decrease this movement just set the rebound position to 6 and 6, but you will lose some steering precision, not so inspiring in fast motorway cruise. The body roll is virtually inexistent and the car is well balanced on hard braking. Give some camber front and back and you are on two rails.
My next rebuild I'm going to ask to increase slightly spiring rates but mostly compression resistance (that cannot be modified contrary to the rebound)to get a firmier ride (closer to an EVO VI to give an idea). The slightly more annoying part is that they are noisy when cold. Some rattle especially from the rear. I got used very soon though.
Build quality is good even though I would have preferred a 40 or 50 mm piston istead of the 2.5?(i Think), to "abuse" them with less concern.
The advantage is to have leda here in England for rebuild.
Last I would tend to suggest not to pay less for suspensions. I prefer to spend slighly more for such an important part of the car (If i would only have money for ohlins or proflex i could became crazy in setting bump and rebound resistance for both fast and slow motion!! arghhh)

Andrea

I do indeed have the the KW variant 3's - excellent piece of kit. However, even on their softest setting they're still stiffer than factory. You can get whatever springs you want from their range - don't know what is on mine (bought 2nd hand after getting fed up with 3 month waiting list :)), but on most tracks I run mine just off hardest settings with road tyres and a bit softer with slicks....so it's ultimately a compromise on the road.

Mine have about 20k km's on them and the rears have developed a slight clonk when they're cold - disappears after 5km's or so. I think the retail price is 1600 euro for the V3's - the German page offers a price list too.

I've only really compared them to the Leda's - but I didn't like the single adjustment on the ones I saw (KW has separate bump/rebound - fiddly rebound on bottom of damper). On track comparisons were hard - my front diff gave the other car no chance exiting corners :)

In reality, at my skill level anyway, I guess any of the named brands is going to give a significant improvement over standard - after the brakes this mod speeded me up more than any other. Don't forget full geometry and corner weighting too :)

Richard

I have Cusco Zero2rs that are really nice and handle great. Howerver the were engineered for the ultra smooth race tracks in Japan.