What Geezer failed to mention is that he has a feeble 3 series compact!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Simon,
I did tell you to try the M3 2.5 Evo (but you wouldn't listen) http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
I've seen a mint one with only 25,000 miles for £16k as well.....
Mike

Maxwell,
AT least I don't drive a Ford Escort, and my next will not be a 'woefully underpowered for its size' Lexus IS200, with cap and slippers supplied.

P.S. And a kamode http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

I'm completely MIRA'd out this morning... I was there Saturday and Sunday.

Couple of great days.

Saturday I saw my first EVO VI at MIRA. Had a brief go round the concentrics (ran out of time, and forgot to ask to take it round the circuit) so I can't give a comprehensive report, but... I would unreservedly still go for the Scooby. And I'm not beig biased. In a Scooby (on the concentric circles), you get it sideways and then you have to control it to keep from spinning an balance the car on the limit. With the EVO, you have to constantly fight to stop it from straightening up. The car felt incredibly fast and competent but was dissatisfying to powerslide because you were having to focus so much attention on keeping it sideways.

M Coupe!!

OH MY GOD!!
Never in my whole life had I dreamed a car could be this good. I really am not kidding. Before yesterday I used to tell people of the Skyline we had at MIRA which was without doubt the fastest thing round that wet circuit, although it was boring to drive as it was so easy. Well, the M coupe would knock hell out it.

Without doubt the M Coupe (I'm afraid to say) is substantially quicker round the WET handling circuit than any svooby, I have driven (thats about 25 scooby's) including 22B's, RA's, anything.

I wasn't just the power (which felt lovely), the grip was like nothing I have ever imagined. I know I sound like I'm going overboard here, but you have to try one to beleive it.

Don did a lovely job of driving it (although I hate to admit it!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif ) crapped all over what I did with it. When people ask me to drive their cars round the circuit, I generally drive them a little short of the limit, because, A. I don't want to disrespect their car, and B. I don't want to crash it for them!!

So there I was, merrilly, driving this car, quite hard and certainly above the limits of almost any other car I had driven round there but still nice and safe (what I assumed would be just below the limit of the car).

Got in it with Don, who was a full 5 MPH quicker round every bend and about 10MPH quicker at every braking point. This is a light year in terms of the MIRA wet grips. The man's a hero!! Would love another go thouhg!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

I reckon, the M Coupe is about 8 seconds a lap quicker than my Lotus and around 6 seconds a lap quicker than a really good Sti.

Absolutely amazing.

Regards

Simon

Simon,

Are you on Tiff Needell's pay roll?

LOL

Beleive me, if you've read any of my previous posts you'll know... the fact that Tiffany liked this car so much makes it very painful for me to agree with him!!

All joking aside... Tiff got it soooo right this time.

Just a shame it's:

a)Uglier than even an Evo.
b) A BMW.

How much do these M coupes cost?

Neil

Good point. I looked at getting one when I was looking for my Lotus. But the dealer was so snotty I just couldn't beleive it. So I binned the idea.

Also, they really don't turn heads at all. However, NOTHING is more ugly than an EVO VI!!

c-ya

Simon

What do the people on this bulletin board have against BMWs? They're well built, comfortable, and they have done some remarkable performance cars. Admittedly, they are a tad overpriced for what they are, but so is P1!

Comments please................

The holier-than-thou attitude.

Geezer

I am one of the worst for this. I am constantly anoyed by the fact that BMW's are some of the best car's availible in the world. I would love to enjoy one every day.

The big problem is the image, and the attitude. BMW dealers in my experience are the snottiest bunch of plonkers in the business. They are certainly not the most expensive or luxurious marque but the certainly act like it.

The majority of people who buy a new BMW, do so without a test drive. This is a fact (apparently). This sort of thing winds me up. I think the dealers act all stuck up because this is what the majority of BMW owners want.

I know I'm being rediculously generalistic (sp? - in fact, is that a word???) but if I am, it's possible most people will feel the same.... hence the image.

I love the machines, but hate the marque. weird I know.

Simon

They have made some good cars, but these are the clear exception.

Exceptional - original M3 (LHD only), M5, new M5, M Coupe (if you believe Simon http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif)

Good(ish) later M3s

My measure here is as Sports Saloons which is BMWs proposition and yardstick. Oh and they also project engineering brilliance.

Well - four years in one of their 'sports cars' 323 Coupe will testify that

a) it is pretty quick
b) it is extremely boring to drive unless driven at exceptionally high speeds
c) it generally lacks interest to drive
d) the engineering design is brilliant (one of the best engines in the world) but the execution is poor - my car has had lots of things fixed on it under warranty
e) the salesmen are in general patronising, slimy a******es - and generally they are much nicer than the service guys

So overall - 'nil point' as the French would say.

Measured as comfort wagons they are probably good - but not in this space - and the joy of ownership is ruined by any interaction you may have with BMW staff.

Rannoch

PS I have, to tell the truth, come across one excellent BMW dealer of the nine I have dealt with over the last four years and that was Lind in Norwich - but it would take more than a good BMW dealer to make me want to go to Norwich

The M Coupe was mine http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

Simon got in and immediately did 5 laps of the magic roundabout with the tail out - completely balanced and so smooth. He then did the circuit way faster than me, such a good driver...

At the end of the day with Don driving... well, I'm still gobsmacked. He made the thing go so fast I'm still in a state of shock.

I did get the M Coupe rather than a Scooby - in fact I missed out on driving an Impreza at MIRA which was disappointing http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif I couldn't say the M is better than a Scooby - they both are wonderful cars.

For those who asked, it was expensive. It was 6 months old when I got it (but high miles, 10K) for 32K - a big drop from 42K new. I'd advise anyone against getting one from new. The initial drop is quite steep but then flatterns out from 29-35K. I believe this is because you can get RHD ones new from Europe for about 35-36K so why waste the money with BMW.

The bad things are: the seats aren't great (no where near enough support for serious driving) and you have to put up with people going on about the BMW image thing... (so what)

It is a damn ugly car...

For those who haven't been to MIRA, I can only say get on the phone and get it booked. It is just so much fun. Don't mess around putting mods on your car, learn to drive...

I went in one of the first in the UK, a neighbour is quite senior in BMW and we are always having arguments about Scooby vs M3, but when he took me out in the M coupe I had to eat humble and admit it was superb, he is also a superb driver but it is a very capable car.
Pity it looks so like a Scimitar though http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

On this dealer issue I completely agree.

I was first looking for either an M3 or M Coupe. I found a garage in Manchester that had both, 2nd hand. I phoned and booked a test drive. I phoned them on the morning of the test drive to tell them when I'd be coming in, they said fine. When I got there they then told me the M3 had been sold 2 days before (and not there). The M Coupe was there, but sold, so I couldn't drive it. I then gave them my details and said contact me as soon as you get anything else in. They never called. They said they would find me the car I wanted, but I'd have to give them the money to buy it before they'd get it in - so buying unseen and undriven. F*** off I say.

Other BMW garages I went to (quite a few) were equally crap.

I hunted all over the place for a garage that had both M3's and M Coupe's in. I eventually found one at Royal Ascot BMW (my nearest garage by chance!). I dealt with the guy who runs the sales there. He was very knowledgable about both cars and gave me a decent test drive. They've been great with me so no complaints.

However, a freind has been since and tested M3's there and he didn't like the salesman he had. Ho hum.

Strange replies.

Well, I am a BMW driver. There, I said it! It's out in the open now. God, I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders! A problem shared is a problem halved, etc.....

Seriously though, the dealer I deal with is excellent, very down to earth and helpful. Yes, they are not so involving to drive in evryday use, but as I travel along motorway each day to work, who cares? And don't forget, they are virtually the only rear drive car readily available, which makes them very attractive.

In my defence, I have a MY00 on order from Gertjan in June, so when I pick it up, I will stop defending Beemers, honestly.

Geezer...

Like I said... I think the car's are second to only a few in the world. They are fabulously built, stunningly reliable, beautifully balanced on the limit, RWD (as you said, definately a massive plus point), comfortable... the list goes on.

I would love an M5, M3 or now and M Coupe.

Also, I think that maybe the M series and most of the bigger engined 3 series are more sought after by proper driver anyway, which does kinda negate my coment re no test drives, etc.

BTW... I also drove Colin's (Don's right hand man) 328 a few times also, another fabulous car, so balanced, so smooth, substantial (if not breath taking) performance. Great car.

What a shame

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif


Simon

[This message has been edited by Simon de Banke (edited 14-02-2000).]

I was there at MIRA also (in a standard turbo Impreza) and fully support Simon's comments (nice to put a face to the name as well Simon) !
I quickly noticed the understeer on my car, particularly on the hairpin on the circuit. I had not noticed this on the road (although I've not had the car that long) which just goes to show what you find out about yourself, your car and its limits at a place like MIRA (so GO, like Simon and Jamie say...). The Impreza was very good round the faster, larger radius bend on the circuit and I found I could at least hold my own there with the other (pretty impressive !) cars.

I also drove the BMW M Coupe and was very impressed indeed, superb grip and went round the hairpin like a dream ! I also drove the MX-5 (also understeered) and an MR2, which made me feel *very* nervous on the circuit, I quickly got off the circuit in that car !
I got a ride in Simon's Lotus, which was fantastic (thanks Simon), a TVR Cerbera which was great and very fast, and a Lotus Elise.

My pre-conception of rear wheel drive cars which become tail happy in the wet has been smashed ! They were all extremely capable cars, especially the BMW, as mentioned. I don't totally agree with the argument that I've heard many times, that an Impreza is a good match for car XXX in the dry but will leave it for dead in the wet.
I know I'm not a particularly good driver, and maybe the standard spec tyres are not very good either ?
I'm certainly considering getting the Prodrive geometry settings to reduce/remove understeer and then I'll pay another little visit to MIRA...

Ohhhh Geezer, shocking vitriol. Ok, Ok I'll come clean, I do drive an Escort however this is a vehcle borne of rallying pedigree and the pinacle of fast car performance, I mean, it shares its stable with the white Escort Van, the fastest, best handling vehicle money can buy...........

I shall be changing to a Lexus as I aspire to drive a re-badged Toyota.....oh, and the missus says I've got to have something sensible.

I thought i saw an M coupe on the road the other day but it turned out to be a reliant scimitar when i got closer.

Interesting. I swapped my MY98 for a M Coupe a couple of months ago. It was obvious after a good test drive (LIND in Aylesford) that the handling was much sharper than the Impreza. The turn in and lack of understeer (relatively speaking) have made it a much more enjoyable drive.
I confess, however, to still being rather cautious about it's behaviour closer to the limit. The Impreza was so forgiving of inconsistent driving (mine!) it felt like you could get away with almost anything.
It sounds like I'm talking myself into a session at MIRA. Those rear tyres look awfully expensive though!

Good to hear your comments Simon, I hope you are enjoying the Lotus.

Simon

[This message has been edited by SimonD (edited 14-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by SimonD (edited 14-02-2000).]

NickM test drove a Lotus V8 on saturday and I had to agree wioth him that whilst it was a lovely sounding car, looked wonderfull, he says it handled well.... BUT... the interiour looked like it had fallen out of a seventies B movie and although the car had only done 20,000 mile was rattly as hell and sounded like it was on it's last legs...

Such a shame, but if you are gonna spend that much on a car you at least expect it to be well screwed together. The excuse of 'character' only goes so far...

SimonD - you've got to get the M Coupe down to MIRA, it really is a must, both from a fun point of view and what you learn. I was a little afraid of what it may do when pushed - 320bhp and those big tyres could make for costly mistakes. At MIRA you'll find the M is not too evil at all - it only really snaps when overcorrecting too quickly, and then not as bad as some would make out.

BTW, I got it upto 150 on the M40 on the way there, still accelerating like it does at 120, plus that was uphill. There was a truck fast approaching so I had to back off. I'm pretty sure it will get to 175 if delimited.

I warn you, only let Don out in it in the afternoon, you'll be gobsmacked at his/it's performance... I'm still in shock.

My M had been there the previous weekend with my girlfriend driving. No noticable tyre wear from 2 weekends of hard driving. MIRA isn't tough on the tyres really.

[This message has been edited by jamieo (edited 14-02-2000).]

I have never found a BMW garage that would actually let me test drive anything above a weedy 3 series...lots of excuses which all boiled down to 'come back when you can afford it sonny'. I dont dislike BM's particularly, but I do hate the dealerships....

Simon - what did you think of the Esprit at MIRA??? Are you sitll in love ? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Spence....I always think comments about the interior are really amusing, as they are generally just copying mag review comments. The interior is all leather, has all the required buttons and does what it's supposed to (thought the newer one is much prettier). Personally I think the interior of the 355 is dull and grotty looking - but as no mag has ever said so, no-one else comments on it....

No one should believe JamieO......

He's talking out of his arse.....He once said the best handling car was a Fiesta Popular.....Somthings about handling like it was on rails, etc.

Anil.

Just Kidding!!!!!! Nice to see you on the website, I got your mail by the way Jamie.

Hi Nightmare

In answer to your question, I am still over the moon with the Lotus. After experiencing the M, I was at first a little dissapointed and wished I had looked more at getting an M.

But I have to say, the car is SO good, I would probably be bored to death with it within no time. You would have to be doing high track speeds to have the kind of fun I like.

The Lotus however, while extremely competent, has by comparison early limits, which can be constantly played with (you can smoke the rear tyres in third in the wet for instance). Also, the Lotus turns almost every head it goes past.

Re the interior, I can't unserstand this, I LOVE the interior. In fact, I think it is one of the nicest things about the car. I love the way you are cocooned in a cockpit rather than sitting on a chair. I love that the whole thing is covered in high quality leatherm that the lateral support is absolutely the best I have ever experienced due to the fact that the centre console comes up to your chest almost!!

I wouldn't change a single thing about the car, appart from the following:-

Make it faster (Don Palmer quote - "If you ever need full throttle, you don't have enough power!!)"
Make the engine sound nicer (it sounds a tad weak)
Make them more reliable.
Make some room for decent speakers!

Not bad really.

Cheers

Simon

glad you like it - would have had many a guilty minute otherwise!

Interesting about M competency, cos round a dry track, an Esprit V8 laps consistently faster.......

Is that right?

How much quicker is the V8 compared to mine?

I have to say, I have no idea about the dry handling, I would be surprised if it is as good as it's wet handling, but you never know.

Maybe I'll get a chance to find out?

Cheers

Simon

I don't know if this is true, but I heard the M Coupe lap time for Nurburgring is 8:22 by the BMW test drivers, 8:46 for an Esprit S4 - how much faster is the V8 likely to be?

as you say, this is heresay, but it is from EVO magazine, which is one of the mags I actually respect the reporting from.....I cant remember enough detail here to stop me contradicting myself and looking like an arse at a future point, so shall post details tomorrow once have re-read mag. I do know that from the 20 cars tested the Esprit V8-GT was fastest.....

And hey, it was only one track, so it dont mean that much! Nurburgring may well be different.....