I always went for a good angle of rotation and got to use most of my heel but like the man says can get interference from the steering wheel in some cars (size 9.5 foot).

Pedal spacing makes an enormous difference. Old car was built with this sort of thing in mind. New one not really
Also the amount of brake pedal travel will be a factor too. Gonna be hard to get your heel onto the go pedal if the stop pedal is nearly on the floor.


[Edited by juan - 11/5/2002 12:16:57 PM]

Perhpas this is a bad time to be asking this, in the light of, errr... other posts, but anyway:

I find it pretty difficult to get my foot across from the brake to the gas - they seem to be rather far apart on my MY02 car. Previously I have done 'Heel & Toe' by angling my foot at about 45 degrees, with the heel end towrds the brake and the toe end towards the gas. Does anyone do it the other way (ie heel at gas, toe on brake?) I have looked at the possibility of this, but it means I have to have the seat further back or else my knee catches the steering wheel. I think the 'spongy brake pedal' makes it harder as if I am well into braking my foot is too far down to ry and roll it across to catch the gas pedal. Any comments at all?

PS - all experiments were conducted in a private Tesco's car park. ;)

I use this on nearly every up change. Its become part of my normal driving.

I brake with the left 2/3rds of my foot and roll my foot across onto the accelerator for the blip.

I always did 'toe' on brake, heel on gas. felt natural and worked well. No idea if one method is correct but the other way round would feel a lot less natural to me. Just my experience.
I would have thought it would be a lot harder to brake accurately using your heel rather than your toe

Pedals were nice n close though (evo), and quite a small steering wheel. Dunno what its like in a scoob. Tried in my replacement motor with more spaced out pedals and not found it half as easy or convenient, and also encounter the steering wheel in the way problem you mention. Thankfully the gearing is not half as short as in my old car so I don't really bother now but before it was a very useful tool.


[Edited by juan - 11/5/2002 11:58:05 AM]

personally I have always put the ball of my foot on the brake and used my heel to blip the throttle. this gives me more control and more feel on the brake pedal . I am not suggesting this is the "right" way to do it though, just what works for me.
I would say that it is a very worthwhile technique to learn, making downshifts much smoother so giving more control and also putting less strain on the mechanics.
Some cars are obviously better than others. My RB5 (MY99) is very good but cant really comment on the MY02.


Steve

I have pretty long legs and so the wheel gets in my way too.

Tend to roll across onto the go pedal with outside of foot.

I only do it when down changing though!! :D

Pete - sorry if I have misunderstood, but presumably you mean down change?

Whoops RB, yes, that is what I meant :)

right - off to tesco's for a bit more experimentation. :)

Toe on Brake, heel (or edge of foot to be more precise) rolling on the gas. Never tried it the other way. Most rally drivers seem to angle their foot more to use the physical heel, but with feet my size its not really possible ;)

Size 11's here, so ball of foot on brake and roll side of foot over on to go pedal.

Been doing it 8 years now, and can't drive without it:)

I only really use it when Im going for it so to speak, but its well worth it if you want to make your changes smooth, especially I find when Im coming into corners or roundabouts at a fair lick.

AP

What's the point?

Smoother gearchanges, less wear on passengers, more mechanical sympathy, less wear on gearbox, better balanced car, less chance of gearchange causing car to overstep limits if its on or near them... :)

My size 14s tend to have no problem toe and toeing everywhere. :)

ProperCharlie - Generally accepted way (if you watch racing, etc. where they show the foot action, websites..) is toes on the brakes, heel on the go pedal. I've got the same problem as you though, only way I can get it right is by dislocating my hip and hitting my knee on the steering column.

thanks for all the info.. i'll let you know once further trials have been conducted. don't look at me if you see some supermarket trolleys looking in a bad way. :P

ProperCharlie, I've got an MY02 as well and have struggled a bit with the heel & toe. Not sure if it is the spacing of the pedals or the difference in height.

I suspect the people who have been heel & toeing for years can adjust to the MY02 pedals with ease, but amateurs like me struggle with it!

the best method is to use the ball of your foot on the brake and roll your foot sideways onto the throttle. However, to do this properly you need to set the pedals up, it's not easy to do this on a stock impreza setup.

I use ball of my foot on the brake and heal to blip the throttle, slightly angleing my right leg to make the motion be a fore and aft using my ankle joint, rather than a sideways swivel. :o

I put my sparco brake pedal extension slightly over to the right and left the accelerator normal. Looks odd because only two of my pedals have the extensions (Drilled metal plates attached to the standard pedals, giving that sports car/ rally look) but to drive and heel/toe it's easier than 100 very easy things.

Mikey :cool:

Tip: When blipping, don't be shy. To small a blip and you might as well have not bothered because the car will still engine break and thus become unstable etc.

What the hell do i know :D:D (Many nights in a Tesco car park :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D avoiding other scoobs :D:D:D )

A missed timed big blip, a slip on the breaks, and you'll be through the window.

Subaru driver up on ram-raid charges............................


I can see it now. ;)

I had this very conversation with Dave T-S at the weekend. On my MY00 I could do it easily but on my MY02 STi I have found it much harder. The pedals seem to be much further apart which means that I can't possibly have a decent amount of foot on the brake pedal and reach the accelerator (with the side of my foot). For this reason I do it like I was taught by Andrew @ 1st Lotus. Ball of the foot in the usual braking position and then rotate (pivot) on that point (the ball of your foot) and use the heel to blip the accelerator pedal (so you foot is about 45 degrees sideways, if you see what I mean).

Andrew says that this is the best method of maintaining a consistent pressure on the brake but Dave swears by his side of the foot method. I think the answer is you do what you are comfortable with as the end result should be the same, just make sure you don't adopt a method which risks your foot slipping off the brake as that could have dire consequences :eek::eek:

Matt :)

P.S. Dave has size 57 feet so can easily use the side of his foot to do the blip whereas my little size 8's can't ;);):p:p

Question..........
I have been heel toeing since I got the STI, I did try it on the RB5 but couldn't get comfortable with it.
When exactly is the correct time to blip, before you move the gear lever, when its between gears or before you let the clutch out?
Don't flame me pls- I do it after the gear lever is in and before I let out the clutch.

Interesting comments about the WRX / STI setup meaning its diffucult - maybe im not just a muppet!!

Any one with a vid care to film themselves heal and toe'ing it and then post it on the web???? Might be a bit easier to follow for us mere mortals!!

Jza

Does it matter ?

The important thing is to ensure the revs are up when you let the clutch out.

Normally though, you would be blipping as you move the gear lever, so its all ready to let out the clutch.

All in my amateur opinion of course.

Matt
Yes mate, but I have a size 8 mouth and yours is a size 57.....;);) :p:p :D:D

Andy
Blip as the lever passes through neutral....

Jza
MY00 to MY01 WRX to MY02 STi7 and noticed no difference re pedal position or ease of H&Ting

On my race car, I roll my foot as previously described - but the pedals are much closer together and the pedal heights have to be correct (ie throttle just lower than the brake pedal once it's biting).

A lot of things conspire to make it more difficult on production cars (eg my tow car)

- Pedals too far apart so you need to rotate your foot anti clockwise to get a lower part of your foot (probably still not your heel) on the throttle
- Over servoed brakes make modulation *much* more difficult (for me at least)
- Spongy brake means your foot has to move whilst twisted - esp tricky at the end of braking when your coming of the brake gently so as to settle the car for the corner
- Crap Throttle response (at least in my diesel !) need to post a letter to get the revs to rise ;)

I also find you need the right footwear - something flexible, booties preferably or soft soled trainers. All good fun, I can only really match the revs at race speeds, otherwise I get it all wrong :) still, I'm a newbie at this.

It does improve lap times dramatically on the track car - not sure about a Scooby - maybe your better of just sinking the brake and letting the computer (ABS) sort it all out :D

Gary

i fitted a set of jap sti pedals to me my00.... there is a nib on the accel. pedal at an angle, this helps especially when hard braking almost sinks the pedal to the floor as you can still keep level with the throttle pedal.....had to modify the nib by putting a few rubber studs on to stop the outside of my foot slipping off and under the throttle pedal.
braking 2/3rd of my inside and tippng outer to get action.l

some people add bits on to there right shoe to get the same affect but think this is a clumsey way and more open to error

I find that different shoes suit heel and toeing better.

I have size 6-7 (no I'm not a girl) and find that certain shoes are better than others for reaching the accelerator with the side of the sole. I tend to find wide boots the best.

Wellies are crap, btw :)

I've had my right leg broken and reset to accomodate this, are you telling me that I could have adjusted the pedals instead ;)

F
PS I always get it wrong to the 'jerky' amusement of my passengers.