Here's a hypothetical situation I would like to pose to you:

America has no choice but to strike back against the atrocities of last week. Hell bent on vengeance and carrying out the will of an angered American people they push Pakistan to let them use their country for a land-based assault on Afghanistan.

Now during 50 years of warfare the Afghan people have never caved in, Russia called it their Vietnam. The Pakistani government have no option but to help the American government to whom it owes $10 Bil of their $35 Bil national debt. This creates an uprising from the Pakistani people, they pledge their loyalty to Islam and the most loyal followers namely the Taliban.

The Taliban in some form take some control maybe not all but some control of Pakistan. The Taliban have been funded for the past 10 years by Osama Bin Laden, he is made a key decision maker of the Taliban regime, and some experts believe that he actually already is a silent leader of the Taliban.

Lets say that the Taliban focuses on and takes control of some Pakistan’s Nuclear Arsenal.

You may think this startling however I have not typed this to shock or alarm. You may not be thinking of this or may not believe this could happen. But 1 week ago I would have never believed that someone could have controlled 4 planes and crash 2 into the WTC and one into the Pentagon.

I merely want to voice my views I am not a pessimist or at all a negative person but this is the Cuban missile crisis of our time.

I am worried.

SJD

The Pakistani Missiles have delivery systems only capable of 150 miles or so - who would they fire them at AND hit??? Iran? no - China? no - Russia? no ..... so who?

The missiles would get destoyed on the ground by total and complete carpet bombing by the Alliance

Sleep well, unless of course some Arab wants your Scoobie - then fight back!!

Pete

Pete

Not that I want to question your clearly superior ICBM knowledge http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

And pardon the question but how the Fooch are do you know the sphere of influence of the Pakistanis Nuclear capabilities?

And whose to say that they haven't had an ICBM ECU remap to make them go further?

I have to say I have read your other post with some interest. Aren't you the slightest bit unnerved by the Religious, Political and Military cliff that we are teetering on?

Who gives a toss ? The inevitable WILL happen. All you can do is accept that 5hit happens and get on with u r life, instead of living in fear of what if`s. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Anyway look on the bright side we`ve got scoobs an they don`t http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif (jus tryin to bring this thread at least relative to scoobynet) http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/rolleyes.gif

Like has been said in other posts, surely this kinda stuff should be in the "non scooby" forum, no ? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/confused.gif

Pete

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scott J Davies:
<B>Pete

Not that I want to question your clearly superior ICBM knowledge http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

And pardon the question but how the Fooch are do you know the sphere of influence of the Pakistanis Nuclear capabilities?

And whose to say that they haven't had an ICBM ECU remap to make them go further?

I have to say I have read your other post with some interest. Aren't you the slightest bit unnerved by the Religious, Political and Military cliff that we are teetering on?[/quote]

I would urge you to click on this link -

So what's to stop them sticking it all in a suitcase and doing a bit of a tour of the world?

Maybe i am naive.

Who needs nukes anyway, its far easier to walk around with synthetic anthrax in a suitcase, no?

The world changed last Tuesday big style, we just dont know it yet!

The real target for us isnt in Afghanistan anyway, it's in every single country in the civilised world sat watching the TV, sipping a cup of tea and waiting to go down to the cashpoint to make a withdrawal from his account just stuffed with some of the $300,000,000 that bin laden and his cronies have in there TSB account in Kabul. (probably switzerland really).

The **** is gonna hit the fan and it wont be in Afghanistan. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif It takes just 19 people to kill 5500. These people are smart and they are ruthless. They aint no assholes who need harbouring in an Arab state. Believe that and you are a fool.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by pslewis:
<B> I would urge you to click on this link -

Pete mate

"Then and only Then", whats all that about?
Do you talk like that in real life or only on the internet?
"don't say I don't know anything about blah,blah,blah,blah"

see ya

That's funny......v.funny http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Who wants to help SJD remove his feet from his mouth?

H. (still laughing)

The WW3 not so funny of course, but I think WW3 is unlikely (IMHO), more concerned about an ongoing terrorist campaign as we attempt to erradicate these extremist organisations....even though I believe this will eventually prove the best course of action to take.

Pete, what range might Bin Lid get out of a Pakistani nuke using Optimax and Millers Octane Booster?

Not directly related, but an interesting pice of jounalism below - not saying I agree or not, but it's food for thought....

One of the most insightful journalists of our time, accredited war correspondent Vietnam, Cambodia, Egypt, India, Bangladesh, Biafra, with many journalist awards to his name. He is one of the very few journalists
that will try to uncover the "WHY" without merely reporting the facts.

"It is not enough for journalists to see themselves as mere messengers without understanding the hidden agendas of the the message and the myths that surround it"

John Pilger 13th September 2001
If the attacks on America have their source in the Islamic world, who can be surprised? Two days earlier, eight people were killed in southern Iraq when British and American planes bombed civilian areas. Not a word
appeared in the mainstream media. An estimated 200,000 Iraqis, according to the Health Education Trust, died during and in the immediate aftermath of the slaughter known as the Gulf war. This was never news that touched public consciousness in the west. At least a million civilians, half of
them children, have since died in Iraq as a result of a medieval embargo imposed by the United States and Britain. In Pakistan and Afghanistan, the mujahedin, which gave birth to the fanatical Taliban, was largely the
creation of the Central Intelligence Agency; the terrorist training camps where Osama Bin Laden, "America's most wanted man", allegedly planned his attacks, were built with American money and backing. In Palestine, the enduring illegal occupation by Israel would have collapsed long ago were
it not for American backing. Far from being the terrorists of the world, the Islamic peoples have been its victims - that is, the victims of American fundamentalism, whose
power, in all its forms, military, strategic and economic, is the greatest source of terrorism on earth. This fact is largely censored from the western media. That Tony Blair, whose government sells lethal weapons to Israel and has sprayed Iraq and Yugoslavia with cluster bombs and depleted
uranium and was the greatest arms supplier to the genocidists in Indonesia, can be taken seriously when he now speaks about the "shame" of the "new evil of mass terrorism" says much about the censorship of our collective sense of how the world is managed. One of Blair's favourite
words - fatuous - comes to mind. Alas, it is no comfort to the families of the thousands of ordinary Americans who have died so terribly that the perpetrators of their suffering may be the product of western policies. I was writing about Palestine and censorship when the attacks in America
took place. A friend, a distinguished American photojournalist, told me how he had stood up at a debate on media censorship in New York the other day and asked why Israel's oppression of an Arab nation, a construct of American power, was not recognised in American political life and the
media. He was called an anti-Semite. It is not quite as bad in this country. The censorship is more subtle: the collaborative silence of the Jewish establishment, together with the BBC's promotion of moral
equivalence between oppressor and oppressed while adhering essentially to Israel's and CNN's news agenda. The Times, says its former Middle East correspondent Sam Kiley, routinely censored his reports in Israel's
favour.

For the full article:

Looks to me as though they wheel him around the perimeter fence so the women can spit and insult him, and then comes online and wants some more http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
Night chaps...
KF.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B>come on pete, tell me what job specifically you do!

you a security guard on site there?[/quote]

HA HA HA HA you cheeky git!!!

You KNOW that I CANT say what I do - and thats NOT being evasive - its something to do with the Official Secrets Act

What I CAN say is that I work in the 'Design' of our main product - I am the manager of a team of people engaged in such activities - any more and I will have to kill you and eat my computer!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Pete

LOL

seem as though we are having a job pissing contest. I was senior electronics engineer on the ultrasound equipment for these people in the UK

I take it I won the Gold then - in the Job Pissing contest?? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

All these years I have been on here and not once have I used my Top Job to gain points - but you all forced me into it - so there!!

I WIN http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Pete

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by KF:
<B>Looks to me as though they wheel him around the perimeter fence so the women can spit and insult him, and then comes online and wants some more http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
Night chaps...
KF.[/quote]

Absolutely BRILLIANT comment KF - Top Man!!

I am wetting myself - honest thats my humour!

Give me some more!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Pete

Currently there is a line; it is nuclear... however there is a lot of damage before you get to there, notably fuel-air bombs; which have a near-nuclear capability.

Given the current US attitude and the huge military movements at the moment (they are not talking about it, but I live near several military facilities; believe me they are moving) I suspect that Afghanistan has absolutely no idea what is about to hit them.

Something to remember about Afghanistan is that the large majority of the government there think that the Americans/NATO are gutless; they have no idea of recent military engagements, largely because TV is not terribly widespread, they don't even know what a smart-bomb is (although cruise missiles are widely known)

The fear is not that Afghanistan is erased from the map... No, the fear is that NATO forces upset/scare neighbouring (nuclear) countries by erasing Afghanistan from the map (notably Saudi)... That explains all the alliances currently being brokered...

Never fear the politicians are here...

...CharlieP

A simple question for Mr Lewis...

Do you ever read your posts when you are sober???

Richard

hmmmmmmm
my man.......

im not trying to argu or anthing im juz speaking my mind ok?

u know i dont think we all really need to worry bout that much...

if its gonna happen it's gonna happen right?

besides if that Bin lad does have nukes then it will depend on how many they got and who they gonna drop it on

to me, most likly its gonna be US if the Bin guy is gonna drop one coz every one hate US

2nd it will be a BIG and i mean BIG operation to get a nuke to drop or set of in US with out CIA FBI or who ever notice it

also this so call WW3 is gonna be 19 against 1 coz everyone saying they will help but it depends on what the US want us to help them with

so guys....dont worry and move on
we can only hope for the best for the pplz in WTC who is still under the building and who is still alive

and also we got our Scooby so lets forget the whole thing and move on

(_8(I)

Pardon?? Can you repeat in English?? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Pete

Pull your head out your missile and stop acting so supercilious. You do a job for the government so foochin what! don't take yourself so seriously and get a sense of humour.


Have to agree with Bumcrack and a few others the tone of your posts is at best arrogant and read in the light of day more pompus than a South American dictator http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

I have stopped trying to like you http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

You peace keeper you, I know a nightclub doorman with the same job title.

Right I'm off to run my paper plane making business http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/tongue.gif

If anyone has a grown up response to make I will switch off the tweenies to take time to read it http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

I have held my peace on this subject for many reasons (my political views have a strange bend)....but I have to agree with John on this line. We in the west have gotten VERY comfortable with our enemies. The fact of the matter is that we have used the UK and the whole of Europe as our buffer zone. But that zone was breached, and now WE finally start to feel insecure. I have long held the belief that it was just a matter of time before they skulked their way here. As stated before, these people are committed to what they are doing, taking years to bring all the needed elements together, and only then putting it into motion. The act was designed for maximum <I>visual</I> impact. I do believe that they may have underestimated the political fallout. Even Iran has voiced condolences, at least on the surface.

As for getting at BinLaden, if the we were approach this with intent to invade and then do a full scale manhunt in Afghanistan, we would be fools. This case is best served by dispatching a few teams of the SAS, who have the knowledge and experience, for the long term mission. And it would be long term. We in the US are too used to a push button world. We have the, '...all we have to do is push a button and all our problems would be solved..." attitude. this may work on this side of the planet, just not THAT side.

This can only get worse. Nukes are not an option. I believe his/their next move will be biological. Large quantities of the former Soviet stockpiles are missing. Believe what you will, but it was never destroyed, and all of it is not under lock and key. I wouldn't be surprised if Iraq hasn't DHL'd them a very nice care package. There are just too many ways this can be done, with relative ease, because this that would carry out the attack have no illusions of personal survival.

Sorry to sound like a Tom Clancy novel. Did I say that.....

Lovejoy

No offence BTW to SJD,

I think he has a valid point that Bin Lid could in fact be able to exercise far more control over the Taliban than people realise. Maybe he does in fact control the Taliban...would that complicate things any more than they are already?????....I don't know.

I will reitterate that I am less concerned about a WW3 scenario than I am about further innocent lives being destroyed by indiscriminant terrorist means.

H.

Many things have to happen before you can have a controlled Nuclear Explosion - I will not go into the details.

What they COULD do however is plant a radiation source somewhere - then its up to us to find it and dispose of the threat - the area will be contaminated however for a long, long time.

There are only a few countries in this world that can deliver a Nuclear Explosion with accuracy and over vast distances - we ARE one - our warheads take readings from the stars in space to find out where they are - then locate the target and destroy it.

Thats why we command a lot of respect throughout the world.

Chemical weapons are a different kettle of fish however, and one we should be terrified of, as are biological weapons.

Pete

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Houlbt:
[B]That's funny......v.funny http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Who wants to help SJD remove his feet from his mouth?

H. (still laughing)

Fuc7 me sew my sides back up they are splitting http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/rolleyes.gif

You must spend your day pissing yourself at everything anyone says http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Not that I want to but on a serious note as john says lets say one of those weapons gets its way over here, by sea for example.

I promise I am not a pesimist, just wanted to know other peoples true feelings on this matter not what they know about someones weapons capabilities.



[This message has been edited by Scott J Davies (edited 19 September 2001).]

Admit it Scott - you didnt ASK how I knew about ICBM's - "What the fooch do you know" was the kinda thing - implying that I was talking out my 4rse!! Glad you now acknowledge my superior intellect http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Where the hell did you get the idea that you can re-map an ICBM???? that showed me that you are clearly not in the technical field and were on very slippery ground http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Bumcrack - what the hell are you on about mate??? - if someone in real life tells me that I dont know what I am talking about when clearly I do, yes, I do say something like "then and only then" - whats the problem? If you are asking if I speak my mind in real life, then YES I do, does that answer your dilema?

Pete

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by pslewis:
<B> I would urge you to click on this link -

I am not a pecimist either. I am optimistic, but only when the rhetorick stops and the real threat is confronted and eliminated.

Right now people are being programmed by everything they read or see on the TV that the root of all evil is in Afghanistan. It is not.

Use your intellect and think about this. The men on the aircraft that hit the WTC had been living in the USA for a very long time. Seven of them recieved training in how to fly for 6 months! The two that flew into the WTC had the inteligence to know they needed jet training so they hired the boeing 727 jet simulator for 6 hours.

The act of madmen, i think not. These men are dedicated to a cause so deeply that they will sacrifice their lives. They did it the smart way too, they didnt go wandering into a checkpoint and blow themselves up, who gives a toss about that. They did it with maximum impact in mind.

There is going to be many more of this type of attack. Large scale atrocities because we dont give a toss about small scale stuff and they have sussed that out.

The west has become comfortable with our enemy, as it was in the cold war, thats easy thinking compaired to eradicating what is going to be with us for a while.

We have the ability to sort this out but it wont be by sending troops to wipe out a 3rd world country.

Use your brains for a change and dont allow yourself to believe the hype.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ChrisB:
<B> Nice web site Pete. Does you Mum's Sister's best mate's nephew's Dad work there? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

I'm with TeknoPete - stop worrying and either...

a) go out and drive whilst you can
or
b) go to the pub

ChrisB.[/quote]


You of course doubt that I work there?? doesnt bother me whether you believe it or not ..... it happens to be true - sorry if its pi55ed you all off but there you have it

Pete

Phew, I feel so much better knowing that Pete works at the AWE. Someone who lists "winding people up" as a hobby...