As for image, you and me may like them but the average member of Joe Public sees a winged gold wheeled Subaru and most likely thinks "what a plonker, that looks ridiculous". But then who cares what they think?
The RS looks great, much more cohesive, you'd have to pick a 22B or P1 to find a better looking Impreza. Plus Ford have been rallying just a little bit longer than Subaru...

As for Hyundai I am at a loss as to why they bother rallying the Accent, it can't do anything for showroom sales as there is no performance derivative, it looks ****e and the typical buyer probably doesn't even know what day of week it is.

I agree with your other points though. Reading evo's review, Ford must hate them for finding some really nasty roads to test it on. The WRX seems to cope great though, and so did the little Clio Cup. I would have only even thought about stumping up 20k for the RS if it could put down the power without twitching about on a typical B road as powerful front drivers do. It makes overtaking a nervy experience as you hold on tight to stop it darting from side to side. Unfortunately more of our roads have the poor surfaces and variable camber that highlights the RS's shortcomings.

Also the waiting list means
a) no cheap imports
b) no discounts
c) no test drives, or wait months to get one
d) lousy "the car sells itself" attitude from Ford dealers

Whether residuals will ultimately hold up well like the Escort Cossie, or drop like the Racing Puma is anyones guess. Should be largely depreciation free for the first year I would have thought.

[Edited by TurboBoost - 9/7/2002 10:04:55 PM]

I can't wait for all the people who've ordered this car without seeing one, or taking a test drive, to take delivery. They're going to be sooooooooooooooo disappointed.:confused:
It's a FORD guys. Thast means it'll be unreliable, the dealers won't be able to fix it,(new model, Ford ALWAYS releases models with bumps that need ironing out), and as always it's performance will have been overstated, and increased subtly for the media who DID get a look at one.
After all, didn't Ford lose "car of the year" over similar allegations?
It's supposedly the "spiritual successor to the XR3i"
Well if it is, I CERTAINLY don't want one.
Question: whats the difference between an XR3i and a hedgehog?
Answer: on a hedgehog, the pricks are on the OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D

[Edited by alcazar - 9/8/2002 8:22:14 AM]

Bought Car magazine today and read their report. I wouldn't buy one as its obviously a bit of a young mans car, but how many on here would trade in their Impreza Turbo/P1/WRX STI IV/RB5 et al for one ?......Blutes

If I was looking for a new car for around £20k, then I would defintely consider one, I would have it above the WRX in my provisional list.

Nope would be a backwards step from 280bhp (220+bhp/ton) and 4WD.

I'll resevre judgement until i drive one :)

Difficult - I'm still struggling with the image thing. Plus the fact that the entire production run is sold out for six months. I think this is the first Ford to have a waiting list. Read Evo's review as well - less than flattering in places.

Or put the question another way - If it was Hyundai producing a road car based on their WRC car would you buy it?

Chris

..just like Ford and Peugeot then:D

Where's the 4WD Focus and 4WD 205?

The editorial in today's EVO is very very true...it used to be 'rally on Sunday, sell on Monday'. Now it's 'rally in 1999, don't even sell in 2002'[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

But at least Peugeot used to do some decent GTis.
Funny how their WRC success is coming at a time when their hot hatch line up is at an all time low.
Maybe this 180bhp 206 could restore some glory for them, I'd love to see a fat arched WRC replica 206.

If Renault could build that Clio V6, surely Peugeot could come up with something a little crazier.

Yes!:D Although i drive an impreza ATM, i'm not a badge snob ( except for a manufacturer that starts with V ;)) I would be interested to drive one and test it against the TaviaRS, FocusRS and decide from there:D

no chance :D

lets be honest......

until subaru started winning rallies in the impreza would you have considered buying a subaru?
i think the answer would be no!
if daewoo won next years WRC ,their showrooms would be chokka!
just think
escort mk 1 & 2
manta
pug 205
audi
lancia delta
plus a whole raft of others,rallying sells cars,and if the accent was available in 4wd/turbo it would sell too!
and if the skoda was doing a bit better youd all drive one of those too

ford will sell loads of focus (focai??)athough i think they are only producing 2000 at the mo,cos people are still clinging on to the good old ford days,which is the same reason subaru owners change from sport to turbo to rb/mac/terzo to p1 to sti etc

at the end of the day if a manufacturer does well in WRC and can produce a car which has 200 bhp and 0-60 in 6.5 and costs +/- £20k it will sell no matter the badge.....sheep??


regards
dave

Sounds a good car.

Ford made a hit with the Puma, I had one and loved it, but I found it too small. I am sure the RS will be a massive success for Ford.

But, I like big cars, the scoob suits me (I reckon the Evo will even more ;)) so the Focus would not be my first choice.

Michelle.

Some very good points there Dave. I was watching a cable channel (over here) tonight and the 206 RC looks *really* nice at 170bhp (their figures). Another nice model is the Opel (Vauxhall) Vectra 3 litre (210bhp) and a top speed of about 250kmph with unbelievable add-ons for about 40K Euros. Not so much a sports car as a saloon but it's got a lot of power.

I had these choices in mind just recently but still went for the STi. There's just something about a scooby which gets me...I'm one of those ppl who LIKE the look even tho' it's got the horses but not much in the way of add-ons...that 206RC looks really sweet but just too small for my needs. The Focus didn't do a lot for me...the 170bhp model is nice and has all the trimmings but it's almost 100 horses short of the scooby so thanks but no thanks.

I have a P1 so I'm sorted but over a fugly yes I probably would buy the focus rs.

I wouldnt be feckin seen in one!, ugly as hell

Dave said:
Well, I had had three Subarus before they brought out their first turbo - and have since had three more :) . But it just goes to show how many sheep drive Subarus. I've moved on ;) :D and am waiting for the flock to catch up :D :D :D

talking of flocks, your not a farmer are you???
(exeption to the scooby rule ;) )

Nope ;) Just a free thinker :)

It is flavour of the month just now, worth a drive perhaps but until then I will reserve full judgement.

My gut reaction is its another hot hatch this time with a trick diff.

I would expect it to be hard work on the road and may be bit of a track day specialist.

In the wet without 4wd it wont look so clever I'm sure.

Have to say over a current standard wrx Id go for the RS or wait for the 206 180.

BUT

I will not be trading in my modified sonic blue my00 for one thats for sure


Tal

Interesting points made. My point about image was not so much directed at the Focus, but at Ford in general.

Reading Evo's editorial, they reckoned that Peugeot and Ford had spent an estimated £100M each on rallying. The point being to raise the image and profile of their cars. Despite all their success, I don't believe there has been a stock change in image or how the cars have been sold because of rallying.

In recent years, the manufacturers who have gained the most from rallying would have to be Audi, Lancia, Mitsubishi and Subaru. In all of these cases, the manufacturer was a either a relative unknown in the UK (Subaru & Mitsubishi) or a low volume niche player (Lancia) or in Audi's case - just in a mess!

Look at the change in perception of Audi after they launched the original Quattro, or the Lancia Integrale, etc etc.

The difference with Ford and Peigeot is that they decided to go rallying sometime after the cars were established and available. To change the image of what are considered safe, mid-range, family cars to such an extent will take a long time. The fact that it has taken either manufacturer so long to produce decent versions of either of their cars hasn't helped.

Don't also forget that rallying doesn't always improve the image! Skoda has one of the longest and most successful rallying pedigrees of any manufacturer in the world. Up and until the takeover by VW they were viewed as a joke.

So would I buy an RS? Don't know - I would love to testdrive one, but I have to say the prospect doesn't excite me in the same way that buying my first Impreza did.

Chris

NO

I am contractor who is currently working in the factory where they are making the RS Focus (Saarlouis), and believe me it is one the most efficient Ford plants in the world. You could eat your dinner off the floor. The whole workforce are fully committed to building quality cars, everything has to be inch perfect.

They also build the Focus in spain !

the point seems to be that it is a handful on UK roads straight out of the box and FWD. No chance of adding extra power then as the chassis is at the limit for road use. Doesn't get my vote on that point alone. I don't want to pull out to overtake and worry about whether the car is gonna head off on its own for the nearest ditch. That much power and FWD never seems to work.

Piers LoFi

Definately yes for the Focus.

A standard WRX is easily the most capable car I have ever owned. It is also easily the most boring, as it does very little apart from just go around the corner at zany speeds as if on rails, with absolutely no feeling or driver involvement.

And those that boast about sliding their Impreza's sideways all over the public highway are either lying, or heading for a huge accident.

Havent driven an RS (yet), but would easily trade off the Subaru's ease of use and capability for some good old fashioned driver involvement or feedback. The fact that you have to work it hard down a bit of B road (according to the press) to wring the most out of the thing sounds perfect to me. I want one.

I had a look at the specs, and a couple of reviews. I bought a WRX. I don't see how a FWD drive car will be better. Maybe next time, when RS Focus V1.5.5 SP2 is available....

Colin.