Bit late after the event I know, but did you ask what he used to check your speed, if it's vascar or something like that then you should ask for calibration certificate, if they cannot provide it then they are stuffed, as they should be able to show this, or the calib tools, when requested.

Hate to say it Barge, but i'm afraid you should have took the 3 points and 60 quid fixed penalty.

Rightly or wrongly the court will believe whatever the policeman says and you'll end up with more points and a larger fine. It sucks and is a mockery of the justice system, but i'm afraid it's how it is http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif

We all know that inapropriate speed kills and that some cops are little hitlers but pointing it out to them was'nt the best idea in the world.

I hope you only get 3 points and a small fine, but from reading other people's experiences that's only a small chance. Getting off altogther is even more remote http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif

at 4am this morning I got stopped for speeding by PC pig.

A20 near sidcup Kent, 70 mph limit, dual carriage way opposite McDonalds if anyone knows the road, PC Pig said I was doing 85 Mph & I was a danger, he had apparently been chasing me for miles down the A20, funny cos I turned on to the A20 from the M25 which is not very far, less than 2 miles, after telling me I would be reported etc etc bull **** etc etc I asked him if had stopped any muggers or drug dealers tonight or is that too dangerous ??? he got the major Arse Ache don't know why, I thought it was a legitimate question, he then asked me if I was trying to be funny.

Tomorrow lunch time I will be running about in Broadgate London with an axe in my hand, because its safer for me to do that than do 85 mph on a deserted road at 4am in the morning !!!!

Did you refuse the fixed penalty ticket barge? Strange that you were reported for doing 15mph over the limit.

Sorry to hear about your tug, barge. Did you actually get a ticket or did he let you off? I sometimes truly think there is no crime out there for them to solve.
However, I have found that I can sweet talk my way out of most borderline situations by just being reasonable with them. Launch into a tirade about catching real criminals and they will give you **** just to fcuk you off. make out like they are only doing their job and 9 times out of 10 you will get away with it.
****the following is for entertainment purposes only and is purely fictional*******
To put it another way, race your mate while wheelspinning off the lights right outside Guildford cruise in full view of 20 coppers in a bright white 3-door Cossie. Upon your return you get tugged by a member if the illuminous army (or at least he will be when he grows up). He starts giving me sackloads of **** about reckless driving. I have two options. Keep my cool and calmly explain that She is a concours car and I would not abuse her like that, or go at him giving him as much abuse as I can using language that would make a pimp blush.
I go for the former and get let off with a "I suggest you improve your driving" Restrain the massive urge to say " but that was a quality bit of driving" and drive off with a smirk on my face and a clean licence in my pocket (which I don't even have to produce in a week)
It dont take a rocket scientist etc.....
astraboy.
(edited to take out some unecessary abuse. Sorry.)

[This message has been edited by astraboy (edited 19 June 2001).]

Sorry to hear about this mate. Really takes the pi$$ can't they feck off and try and find something useful to do.

Probably just jealous of your Scooby.........

J

(Flame suit on)

You were breaking the law and deserve to get pulled for it. It is not open to your interpretation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not holier than though. I do speed. But whatever the time and conditions, I'm prepared for the consequences of my actions.

The police can't focus their attentions solely on crimes you consider more important.

(flame suit off)

Having said all that, it does seem like the government KNOWS the average person speeds on occassion and almost sees speeding fines as a tax, rather than a crime reduction exercise.

And of course, as speeders are so easy to catch/fine it does make their clear-up rates look rather healthy. Another example of Labour induced spin obfuscating the truth.


[This message has been edited by DavidBrown (edited 19 June 2001).]

Stuart

Speaking as someone who got done for 74 in a 60 (dual carrigeway on a quiet Sunday afternoon, non-built-up area) I can sympathise with your position. My objection is not so much being caught, but being used as a cash cow by police / government. Your only saving grace is the hope that he won't take it any further.

This is the exact reason that I will be investing in several 'devices' to be fitted in my car and why I have no hesitation in posting up unmarked police cars / speed traps on this BBS. It is time the balance was redressed a little bit in favour of the motorist. I'm not condoning the idiots I followed last night doing 50mph+ through a small village, but there does need to be a rethink in how we police our roads.

Incidentally, if you're interested, watch out for a blue Mitsubishi Galant and a silver Honda Civic - both unmarked police cars on the Surrey sections of the M25.

Chris

I refused the fixed penality ticket, refused to show any ID or documents & refused to sign the 7 day wonder.
He was driving a Volvo job, flashed me once when I stopped, I got very p155ed off at him because I felt he had better things to do, & as for chasing me along the A20, complete bolx, still I will enjoy my day in court, I feel like a fight & a judge will do, I also took a note of his number and a sneaky pic of his car with my digital camera, showing him in the car, its reg no & our location, I just hope he has some info wrong for the court date.

TOTALLY agree with DavidBrown's post..

We ALL hate being done for speeding, but you can't get angry about it.. it was *you* that decided to do it.

You have every right to be fed up, but not angry at anyone except yourself. You knew the rules and you broke them.

I too break them, and have been done. I bleeding HATED it. But it was my own fault. I'm just glad I haven't been done every time I've broken the speed limit!

In further agreement with David..

I do also HATE the fact that speeding is being targetted so heavily in the wrong places. In places designed to produce revenue rather than save lives.

Either way. I really don't think calling the guy "PC Pig", etc is constructive or deserved. The guy may well have let you off with a slap on the wrist if you hadn't had such an attitude with him??

Who knows.

Simon (Hate being done, but have no problem with the police)

Barge,
As far as I am aware, digital images are inadmissable as evidence in the UK because it is so easy to alter them. Beware.

Geezer

Geezer, any idea if that applies if they have not been downloaded from the device?

BTW, would that not mean photographic evidence from any of the new automated cameras would be inadmissable as it is transferred back electrically before being processed.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by barge:
Tomorrow lunch time I will be running about in Broadgate London with an axe in my hand, B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Barge
Let me know what time mate, i'll wander up for a look http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Robertio:
<B>BTW, would that not mean photographic evidence from any of the new automated cameras would be inadmissable as it is transferred back electrically before being processed.[/quote]

Good point indeed, Robertio! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/cool.gif

Barge - If you were correctly clocked at over 70mph by their equipment, then give it up mate...It really isn't worth the hastle. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif

Besides, My old man's a rozzer. So I know that if they want to make your life a misery they will, and you'll pay and pay and pay. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/eek.gif

....but on reflection, if you'd said a chopper, i'd probably have stayed in the office...... http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/eek.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/eek.gif

Don't get upset at yourself because of speeding! Get upset at the Fuzz that pulled you over. If you thought speeding was wrong you would not do it. I love speed, I love speeding. Hence Subaru and not BMW http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

I thought 30 signs were there to tell me to change into second gear!

[This message has been edited by Mr Leigh (edited 19 June 2001).]

Barge,

Whilst I sympathise.........

a) you were speeding
b) he was doing his job (if he was a traffic cop he isn't responsible for catching muggers)
c) If someone suggested to you rather unpolitely whilst you were at work that you could be doing something better with your time, you may get major arse ache...

The police don't make the laws they just enforce them. A couple of mates of mine are coppers and they are both clear on the matter.... The Attitude test Counts.

Dave

Mr Leigh,

I agree with your point that we should get angry with the Police.

How is it that the police seem to exercise enormous discretion when it comes to minor offences like drunk and disorderly, breach of the peace, etc.. yet don't when it comes to [perfectly safe] speeding.

This is seriously going to end in tears. At some point there will be a serious break down in law and order.

Squizz,

Re: your comment about the police making people pay and pay

What sort of signal does this send? Don't mess with me or I'll get ya!. Sorry, I don't buy this for a minute. I am sure your old man could cite dozens of examples when people had been inappropriately targetted by such measures. It is a pity that the police aren't targetting criminals with the same vigour.

C

Is this turning into some kind of anarchists bulletin board?

Speed limits have always been there, we all know what they mean. I speed. We all speed.
It's a risk you take. If you get caught, be a man and take it on the chin. (and before anyone starts preaching - I have been caught speeding and done seven times
And as for this generalisation that all coppers are w*nk*rs, I'm sorry but how old are you lot? Theres good and bad in every walk of life. If you disagree with something someone has done - fair enough - vent your anger, but this is getting silly!

medders,

The problem is that speed limits are being enforced to the exclusion of all else.

I know of several people who have been done at 32MPH in a 30MPH. How can that possibly be justified when the current legal requirement for a speedo is +/- 10%?

It just amzes me the number of people who think the authorities actions are justified. They are not.

Speed enforcement has NOTHING to do with SAFETY and EVERYTHING to do with REVENUE.

C

The current legal requirement for a speedo is +10% -- it is not allowed to under-read at all.

You have got to smile and be pleasant, no need to grovel - I have found that crying and hugging their legs does more harm than good!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

My motorbike licence got me off a definate court appearance a few years ago. Pulled over doing 52 in a 30 in my Calibra, coppa was on a bike, gave me a lecture - yes I said, didnt realise I said, nice bike I said http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

He said that it would be a fixed penalty at under 50mph - but NOT over so I will have to attend court and my fine will be based on my income http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/eek.gif !!!!!!!!

I handed over my licence and he saw I had a full bike licence, Ok, he said - have a fixed penalty ...... us bikers need to stick together .... wink ..... and on his way.

Imagine if I had said, Hi PC Pig!!! havent you got anything better to do!!??? EXACTLY!!

Pete

ca, fair point, but not what I was saying. I too hate this trying to make speeding anti social (and probably more than most people in this discussion with the number of points I've had)
The police do as they are told. If the government tell the police to buy more traffic cars or employ more traffic police then that's what will happen. The government make the rules, not the police.
If you are a traffic officer, you deal with just traffic. That doesn't make you a w*nk*r (unless of course you are one which would be fair)
The police don't set the limits either (discretion comes into it sometimes as does the attitude test but I'm talking about overall)
Your average PC traffic officer is a normal bloke like you and me who has a difficult job to do. They aren't all the same.

Speed camera's however are the work of the devil.

ca
you say you know of several people who have been done for 32mph, sorry but I find this difficult to believe, I know guite a number of people, including myself who have been done but never for 2mph above the limit.

I agree with some of your points, speed enforcement has become a stealth tax, but I do not agree that it has NOTHING to do with safety. If you are caught speeding in a 30mph zone then I think you deserve what is coming to you in all but a VERY few isolated cases.

On a clear road, out of town, in good conditions in a modern car the current speed limits are too low, and it is not dangerous to exceed these limits. However we know the laws and it is not for individuals to decide which laws they want to abide by.

If you don't want to swell the authorities coffers, don't get caught!

I got a letter this morning to say I had been caught doing 42 mph in a 30 zone @ 12am on a Sunday (Large main road). No photo, no copper pulled me over just a letter asking for money and the name of the driver.
When I rang to ask they said if I did not provide all of my details they would take my company to court and fine it up to £1,000 http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif

Why won't they parked in the centre of town catching all the mad boy racers?

Whilst the speedo is not allowed to under read a couple of years ago Topgear tested car speedo's of various cars and found that they all under read at certain speeds. Surely this has to be taken into account by speed traps. I thought that this was part of the reason that the police guidelines still allow the 10% (speedo error) + 2mph rule (human error).

Jon

murray53,

When driving I take into account the conditions. That means when I am driving past the local school at 15:15 on a Friday afternoon, I ignore the posted limit and drive at 10-15 MPH.

Now, at 5am in the morning, I will drive the same road, but at the posted limit. Why? well I've been prosecuted twice for speeding (once in 1990 and once in 1997) It is not an experience I particularly enjoy nor one I want to repeat.

Do I exceed the limit? more often than not, no I do not. I stick to 70MPH on NSL roads.
Very occasionally I might do 85 MPH but that really is very occasionally.

A police officer is able to take into consideration whether a person is driving safely at a certain speed, where a camera cannot.

The authorities constantly drum the message that 'Speed Kills' into us and that as long as you stick to the limit you'll be safe. Rubbish.

I am not against speed camera's per se. Red traffic light cameras serve a useful purpose. Speed camera's should be high visability and at accidenty blackspots only. Preferably with lots of other signs like - you guessed it 'Accident Blackspot' ahead.

C

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif Hooray back into the land of reasoned debate ........

ca
I agree with all you say in your most recent post. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif