I was recently in the same situation as you mate. I bought a car from a BMW garage (i.e. not a scoob) and after driving it for about 200 miles (from Worthing to Stafford) the exhaust fell apart. Apparently (according to the road side mechanic) the exhaust was rusted and needed replacing. The car has only done 48,000 miles and the BMW warranty would does not cover exhaust systems!

The think that pissed me of is that the car came with 1 year MOT and passed BMW's used car 128 point check, yet it still needed most of a complete exhaust system. The total bill for the new parts Inc fitting was over £500. Something that I point blank refused to pay. I demanded that the dealer pay this or I would take further action. All credit to them, they said yes but I was very very annoyed at the inconvenience .

I suppose what I am saying is MAKE the dealer pay. I understand you may not be one for confrontations but £700 is a lot of money, shout, scream at the dealer if you have to, after all, once they have paid the £700 for the work you don't ever have to go back to them again.

Darren

[Edited by darlodge - 7/2/2002 11:27:26 PM]

Having just bought a Impreza WRX (import MY93) I thought all was yummy. Except that it smoked quite a lot after a longish drive (i.e. when i got it home). I now discover that the valve stem oil seals and valve stem guides could be the problem (previously thought it might be the turbo).

As a guesstimate this is gonna be £700ish apparently, oh and the warrenty probably doesn't cover it.

What I can't understand is the dealer should've known there was a problem of this magnitude, surely? They don't 'just go' do they?

Bollox, I'm not too happy...

Ouch :(

Ian

What mileage is on the car?

Try and get the dealers to pay, although they'll no doubt try and wriggle out of it as much as possible.

Its just gone 70,000 (was on 69,600'ish when i bought it)

That's an existing problem with the car, they don't just go as you rightly say.

So what do I do. I'm not a great one for confrontation but should the dealer (its a small one by the way, not exclusively scoob) be sorting this for me?

IMHO

For a problem like this to have arrisen too soon it was an existing problem and teh dealer should rectify this, as the car was not really fit to be sold.

Ian's got it about right 'not of merchantable quality' (spelling)?

Good luck

S

ARSES!

The other thing to consider is would you want the dealer to repair it? Or would you rather look for another car?

I think dealers have about a 3 month responsibility for what they sell. Of course they keep quiet about this but you are more protected than you may think. I suggest a phone call to local trading standards who should be able to comment on this. If it is valve stems seals then this would have been building up for some time. Good luck. DL

One for trading standards - give them a ring. depending on what they say, you will also want to tell the dealer that you've got trading standards involved and see if you can come to some arrangement with him (ie he refunds you some money etc).

Cars have to be sold in a roadworthy condition afaik, i think you should ask Mellow Yellow for some advice here!

Tony:D

Johnny,
I take it you also run your car on a minimum of super unleaded/optimax (if not with some octane booster thrown in?)

Tony:D

All

Many thanks for your comments. Perhaps a call to Trading Standards is the first step. Tony - What/who is Mellow Yellow (am I being a dunce here?) and yes I only ever put super unleaded in (although I've only actually put petrol in about 5 or 6 times so far).

If you're warranty is backed by Warranty Holdings, read the small print very, very carefully before calling them, so that you know what kind of reasons they will have for not paying up.

Too late now, I know, but what I think you SHOULD have done was turned round and driven it straight back, with cries of "wtf is all this smoke?????", there and then and sat with it running on the forecourt, belching out smoke, making a general fuss demanding money back from the owner/manager of the business.

I know its easy to say, Im the same as you, dont like confrontations, but Im learning that sometimes you have to be hard nosed to get the service you deserve.

It must be their responsibility. How on earth would it pass an emmissions test for its MOT that I assume they provided you with if its throwing engine oil out of the exhaust??? (I dont actually know the criteria for passing, but Im assuming that it would fail if its blowing blue smoke)

If all else fails write up a sign "these robbing *******s sold me a car with a knackered engine and wont sort it out", drive back there and sit outside with it blowing blue smoke, waving the sign at their potential customers, until they rush out to fix it or the police take you away. Either way it will get you noticed :D

Good luck, but you shouldnt need it.

Want me to come round and do it for you?

Paul,

Like the sign idea but I think I'll try being polite and courteous first. No sense being a bull in a china shop straight away. If that doesn't work then I'll probably start shouting...

Sorry, should have stated "after they've said no" which any respectable reputable dealer wont, and Im sure they'll deal with it for you.

Might even be that they didnt know if it takes a while to get to temp and start to blow, but thats not an excuse they can use.

Keep us informed, and take it back asap :D

Have a look under the FAQ section on the BBC Watchdog site.

Under cars the first item is exactly what your looking for.

Watchdog

Nathan..

Many thanks Nathan. I've had a look and there are some interesting points there, especially the link to the sale of goods act.

hi jonny,being an ex car dealer the law says if there is a problem with the car within the first 30 days no matter how small the dealer has to fix it,no ifs or buts about it.

most people don't know that and most dealers won't tell you for obvious reasons ;)

good luck mate

jonny gav can you tell me where I might get written proof of this law so that I can produce it if required.

Sorry to hear about your probs m8 !!

I would agree with the majority of the comments on here about going back and mentioning trading standards peeps etc..

What I am surprised at is how much the repair bill is !

Old Fords are notorious for this problem and my previous cars had this sorted for around £70. Okay, they weren't turbocharged 200bhp engines but surely the repair process is very similar !?!

The actual seals themselves are usually a plasticky-rubber or a paper-like substance and are really cheap to buy, its the dismantling of the top end of the engine that bumps the bill up.

I'm only guessing but considering the type of engine and car in comparison to my old thing, I wouldn't want to be paying more than, say £250 for the repair !?!

Anyone else think that £700 is a bit much for something like this ?

Cheers,

John

well Ive only got a standard 96 turbo, but having occassionally looked under the bonnet I was thinking about this....

With a sensibly laid out engine :p all these seals are at the top, under the bonnet and under the cam cover. Only need to take the top off the engine, valves out and hey presto.

but with this ridiculous layout youve got to work on both ends of the engine with all the bodywork in the way...I reckon its an engine and gearbox out job. Must take at least 4 times the labour of just popping the top off, but maybe some mechanic can enlighten us.

Now my MkII capri, thats a different matter. 5 minutes with a bike spanner and a chisel and its fixed :D

I had seals go a 4-cylinder Peugeot. Main Peugeot dealer said head had to come off etc etc about £600. My local garage had a bit of kit that allowed him to do the job without removing the head - don't ask me how but I think he pumped air into top of engine via spark plug hole thus pushing out valve spring. May not be enough room to do this though on engine layout that you have. Worth asking though. David

Latest development is:

Not covered by the warrenty (now theres a surprise)
8hrs (per side) = 16 total = £560 Labour charge
Parts additional (and need to be sourced)

Why not covered by warranty? Are valve stem seals specifically mentioned as non-warranty components, or is there another reason?

Don't know why not covered (haven't got policy in front of me at mo). Spose its classed as 'wear and tear'?