450/450 in a hatch
 

How much do you think the cost would be roughly to achieve 450/450 on a hatch? Including fitting at a garage?

Current spec on the hatch is

Std turbo, turbo back decat exhaust, fmic, mapped @ 361/400

Forged pistons
Forged rods
Acl bearings
Uprated oil pump
Cosworth gaskets

It may have closed deck inserts fitted but I'm not entirely sure about this just now, I'm waiting to find out. Edit....it hasn't got them fitted. Owner at the time had no intentions of running big power.

I'm just curious to the rough cost and what's needed as it's something I may consider down the line hence the main reason I opted for a car with a forged build.

Cheers

assuming no other mods will be a fair size list, fuel pump, injectors, front mount, turbo, clutch etc, i'd also chuck a syvecs on it.

Guess 6-7k

I'll update the post but it's got a fmic......

I've just had a reply from SSS and it hasn't got closed deck inserts.

£2/3k if you ask me... don't need a syvecs on a hatch for 450bhp... you'll probably get pretty close to 430bhp with just a turbo and remap.. not too sure what the standard injectors are capable of... so may need to change those... should see the torque you're after at that... or near as makes no real difference.

Don't chase numbers... chase the driving experience... less can quite often mean more, you want it to be responsive all the way through the range... not wait, wait... boom for 5 seconds then... nothing left. ;)

He's already got a front mount :thumb: and 400 torque another 50/60bhp should see him beyond 450 foot pound.

Standard ECU will struggle to control a turbo that size, you know i've been there been there done that lol.

Only way you'd get anywhere near 2/3k is if you buy second hand parts and do it yourself, OP already said a garage to do it. But break the costs down and you'll see what it actually costs, soon adds up and i highly doubt you'll get near it with that small budget matey.

Yeah but it's a hatch, not a hawk wrx or type r, it's got a different ecu.

i'll check with pat on it to confirm.

I feel 450/450 would be a weapon on the road, I must admit I do have this desire for a silly build but it won't be ideal for the road, just more for ****s and giggles but I'd much prefer useable power.

I'm trying to weigh up whether it's worth doing, or buying one already done or getting smoothing else.

If it's not overly expensive then it's definitely a route I'll consider.

I had originally thought that all I'd need is turbo, a few other parts and then map but you guys know better than me. I've sent my garage a message to see what they say.....there's no rush anyway, I'm going to enjoy the car just now and then further down the line when the mood takes me.

Wouldn't it benefit to do head work at that stage on a 2.5? Thought the springs are weaker than the 2.0

nah be fine at 450

I ran hawk sti 2.5 heads at 2.2 bar over 600bhp no issues....

Sounds good to me. !!!!!!

I've got close to that level on a hawkeye JDM (Shaun's old car if you've read his thread). Before that I had a blob JDM with standard VF37 and top mount and I miss that car still - despite the better top end (and contrary to Shaun's accounts on his thread) the FMIC + big turbo is considerably more laggy, and that's on a twin scroll. The blob would have instant push available at any revs in any gear, and was probably quicker in many real-world situations.

Try to get some seat time in a big-power car before you take the plunge.

Have a look at Domino's build, he is running in excess of that power on his hatch.

needed a better setup i would suggest. I gained spool with a front mount haha

Maybe! Has got parts from Litchfield and RCM and mapped by Richard Bulmer, who all presumably know what they're doing. To be fair my blob was exceptional - the hawk has brutal power from 3.5k-6.5k revs, is very drivable and comparable to a normal single-scroll in its delivery, but there is something about being able to get usable, linear torque in all gears from 2k revs that made the standard car (decatted with FB Tuning map) very special.

I am comparing EJ207 engines - the EJ25 may be a different story.

Without,

Attachment 26226

with front mount,

Attachment 26227


Did have some other bits done and boost raised (6 speed, induction kit and twin plate clutch), but gains roughly 50rpm spool and a a fook tone more torque and bhp lol

Tis on a 2.5 though

Subscribed.

Mine is dyno'ed at 440/440 on a 2.0...if I kept it under 400 I'm sure I would gain some spool back.

Mines only limited by the turbo giving it's all. Bigger turbo is next on the list

Mines running 530 with the standard ecu (and maf) without any problems , my spec isn't massive as if it wasn't NEEDED I didn't bother adding it lol
Previous spec 398bhp
standard injectors,3" decat , cheap induction , HRC fuel pump and a billet conversion on a vf48 and a remap

Current engine mods 531bhp @ 1.75 bar

Forged and closed deck
Forced performance red none billet
Forced performance 84mm inlet pipe
Forced performance turbo oil feed
TGV delete and air pump delete
HRC 340 fuel pump
Asnu 800cc injectors (now maxed)
GT spec 3 bolt headers coloured white
Full 3" japspeed exhaust
Teg sport custom made front mount intercooler (sprayed with perrin logo)
RCM 80mm indutcion kit & custom 80mm maf housing
Classic 3 post boost solenoid
Perrin 4bar map sensor
Pro-R 15/50 oil
NGK ilfr7h spark plugs

@Wull - I have a hatch running around that power. Am happy to send you the mod list and what I reckoned works well on the car/needed and not so much. But speak to your mapper about the hardware as mapping and the right hardware go hand in hand. You also need to decide if you want a large power band or just top end big numbers.

@domino - At what rpm do you hit 1.75bar and what rpm is your peak torque on the FP Red?

I get full boost @ around 4K just under, not sure on the peak torque to be honest

Find a VF36, send it to Chevron Motorsport to get the Owen Developments magic applied to it, find some standard twin scroll headers and up pipe, 1000cc injectors and a standard ECUTEC remap and you wont be far off your goal with a budget of about 4.5K - 5.5Kish depending if you can find good 2nd hand parts as that turbo aint cheap - I know as I have one!!!, an uprated top mount or front mount wouldn't go a miss either along with FPR and parallel fuel rails and up rated fuel pump.
You have already done the hard bit of the forged engine

I was lucky I found a 2nd hand Hybrid VF36 kit consisting of turbo, headers up pipe and turbo inlet hose for £2750 plus a VF36 that I picked up for £300 in need of a refurb. The price of the turbo alone is in the region of 3K new plus a donor turbo.

The turbo aint cheap but it will pull like a train, be on full boost from about 2700 - 2800 rpm and is standard position

There's a vf36 with up pipe, headers and downpipe on ebay for 950 or best offer...

Few vf36 for sale on there

why spend all that then run it on a crap ecu?

In what way is the ecu crap ?

Same ecu as Bob Rawle was running at the same power level and its based on his advice that the ecu is up to the task and he seems to think it's a very good ecu but what does he know about ecu's lol , has launch control , flat foot shifting and auto blip

What more do I need from my road car ecu ?

Most after market ecu don't (or didn't when I checked) allow for the IDrive set up or cruise control , mine still does all this aswell an runs fine @531 bhp

What boost can the stock ecu see without removing the safety cuts?

Syvecs will do everything the standard ecu will do even on the new 2014 on ones ;)

Std Ecu is far from crap, it's just the syvecs is just the next level.

For me the safety features that the syvecs can do is why I have gone down that route. Plus I'm ditching the dual avcs, this Ecu makes the process simple and guaranteed no issues.