Quicker spooling
 

Been a while since i tinkered with the old car so thought id have a look at my spooling, lately seems to spool a bit slower than it did (before i tinkered with it ha ha ) Anyhoo

Im looking at cells rpm 2400 and 2800 from load point 27 downwards
Heres my Current setup timing and fuel wise

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...40d0e5eb5f.jpg



And proposed changes

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...e627a6a88f.jpg


My thought process is add fuelling and retard timing to allow the burn to continue into the exhaust etc, is propsed changes enough or too much etc ?

Thoughts

cheers

If similar to mine starts to spool at 30 load
My timings lot higher
Wot afr u have at 0 and 0.5 bar

normally I'd say less fuel to promote the spool up instead of more fuel. Leaner afr gives more heat. Unless your able to get negative timing in there then more fuel will just end up cooling things down rather than speeding them up.

Course with the negative timing you'll produce no torque so the car will spool quicker but bog down whilst doing so - basic antilag whilst trying to move will do you no favours.

If you take a look on the romraider site you can download some of the JDM roms - you can't nick the settings but you'll get an idea of how the AFR and timing changes during spoolup (and of course depress yourself with how much timing the JDM twinscrolls run LOL).

Ok cheers guys, shall i go with the retarded timing as it is in the 2nd pic and lean it out ? i dare not go higher timing wise as in the 1st pic as when it was id get a cell or 2 in the knock control with -0.50 or -1.00 etc so im at the highest i can go timing wise in those cells

so rather than go richer, instead of 13.8 and 13.6 AFR at cells 2400 and 2800 from 27 load point onwards would it be beneifical to lean these up a bit, 14.1 say or is that too lean for this load point ?


So , lean it to 14.1 with the retarded timing or leave timing and just lean it out ?

i think that depends how much boost your making at that load level too though. Are you able to do a log/plot of your manifold relative pressure/wideband AFR and timing over RPM for say a 3rd gear roll on using a flat road? That way you can tweak tables and do a bit of a back to back comparison.

Ok bud, will run some logs when i get a chance to, just been tweaking the map on the laptop with potential settings.

For now, ive set this map on the car , im making quite high boost low down so have gone a bit richer than 1st thought

My mid range duty cycles are high as i love partial throttle high boost , get in lol

Heres what im trialling 1st and will go from there........

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...c233c8d7f5.jpg

well had a quick blast with the leaner AFR and dont think it works for my car, as soon as i get into around 3200 rpm and the AFR gets richer theres alot more punch from the car, now i know the boost is kicking in more here but with a richer AFR its alot more punchy if that makes sense.

no logs taken yet but driveability wise it seems bnetter with the richer AFR`s

did you also adjust timing as well as AFR? they work together so you need to adjust both together for best results! any log data for back to back comparison?

No i left the timing alone for now, tested with richer and leaner AFR, didnt fancy making the timing more retarded with lean AFR as im hitting quite high boost early.

will re-do the settings and take logs, for now, ive been going by feel of the car as laptop battery not good enough to log for now

cheers

I guess it also depends what you class as leaner/richer

i tried the 14.4 at 2000 rpm to 13.4 at 28000 rpm which i classed as lean, now im back down to richer which ive set to 13.4 from 2000 rpm richening to 12.4 at 2800 rpm

OK but what boost levels where you hitting at those RPM's and how much timing? You have to picture in your head it's a balancing act between AFR, timing and boost. If you change one then you need to look at the others too as some adjustment will be needed to maintain the perfect equilibrium

Hi Bud

boost levels from 2800 rpm are around 1 bar+

My timing is already quite retarded low down, early to mid 20`s , as im hitting quite high boost low down i dont want to retard too much timing and im thinking the Richer AFR`s help (13.6 , 13.4 , 13.2 from 2400 , 2800 and 3200 rpm)

Its that fine act between good spool and retarded timing yet no power or mild retarded timing (what i have i think ? ) to quite quick spool and mild power

As i say i havent made logs ive just been going by the feel of the car when altering the AFR`s, i must get my laptop battery sorted .

never mind laptop battery just get one of the power inverters off amazon you could be up and running by the weekend :)

True, i might have to invest in one :-)

These are the 2 maps i will test

1st one with about 5 degrees of advance removed upto 3200 rpm

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...646e24af03.jpg





2nd one with the 5 degrees of advance

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...e2abc68a7e.jpg




Will do a power run/Log and see whats what i guess

cheers

cool - also worth taking a printscreen of the map trace say in 4th gear if you can find room. If your hitting higher loads sooner in the revs then stands to reason your changes are having an improvement for you :)

If u making bar at 2800 then those afr's look lean and low timing
Have u an egt gauge

Are you on about load points 60 and 65 ? No EGT gauge

Timing is retarded but any more advance and Det occurs Across load points 60/65 for the boost I'm running

Esl tables not easiest to read as doesn't show what boost is at load
If load 30 is about 0 bar then timing looks low around that
My afr is about high 11 at 1 bar some are richer

Load 30 is about 0.50 Bar on mine

Heres my current in use fuel table , timing and boost levels , it pulls very well with this setup, just me trying to get quicker spool but i think without upgrading say the up - pipe etc, things like timing and AFR wont be that noticeable lol


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...8d2472be02.jpg





https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...f9cd1e8c43.jpg

Seen this RCM up pipe , do they assist with noticeable quicker spool or leave with stock up pipe on my WRX classic ?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...096afc5ceb.png

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...8632be8d64.png

How about a Harvey 'trick' up pipe from ASPerformance?
Heard good things about these regarding quicker spool.
Also a good set of exhaust manifolds or porting your own aids spool.

Ported standard for anything under 400hp, a larger diameter up pipe like the rcm will probably reduce spool as the exhaust gas velocity will decrease.

Ok guys glad I asked , I assumed the RCM up pipe was a smaller diameter , whoops

Why would you want a larger diameter up pipe ???? Unless you had fat turbo I guess

Ok cheers guys

Alyn makes the trick up pipe for your specific setup and use,I'm sure if you wanted faster spool then the design would be custom made for quicker spool?
All assumptions tho as I've never used one. @ @ASPerformance would be the best person to ask.

More air in, more air out....

So, if i went for the Say, maximum spool type of up pipe, what side affects would i get from this, as im assuming it would be a smaller diamter up pipe, it would limit the amount of top end boost created of the turbo?, but if the turbo (standard TD0516g on a wrx) creates say, maximum 1.6 psi, im only using 1.4 max of boost , would i still achieve 1.4 with a maximum spool up pipe ?

cheers

"maximum spool" uppipe in this case I think would be either the stock pipe lightly ported or the harvey smith pipe along with a set of stock headers ported out. Most of the aftermarket stuph will be larger bore to suit giant turbos and it will just kill off the spool.

Heat wrap all the pipes too

Cheers bud , yeah the maximum spool up pipe would be the Harvey smith one , if I placed an order I'm trying to gauge if their maximum spool version would have any adverse effects on other areas i.e. Boost levels achieved etc or if indeed there is much difference between their trick up pipe and say a trick up pipe by them but ported etc

my 2.5 is running an original harvey pipe and some custom ported headers - has no issues on the VF43 maintaining and holding 1.5 bar so with the 2.0 on the same diameter pipe I can't see it being an issue for you. I'm only on 2.5" exhaust as well so if your 3" again shouldn't be an issue on choking anywhere.

Ok bud good info, yeah im running full 3" exhaust