Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886662)
Is our net £10 billion contribution to the EU a price worth paying for tariff-free access to the EU market? If we left the EU with no trade deal at all, which is unlikely, our exports would face EU tariffs averaging just 2.4 per cent. But our net contribution to the EU budget is equivalent to a 7 per cent tariff. Paying 7 cent to avoid 2.4 per cent costs makes no sense.
EU membership prevents the UK negotiating free trade deals – and the EU has negotiated few deals for us: none with China, India, Australia and Brazil just to start with. Does the EU’s size mean it gets better deals than we could alone? This is the reverse of the truth. The more countries involved in a trade deal the harder, slower and worse the result. Perhaps we're not as doomed as the serial whiners would have us believe. Also this isn't just about tariffs. Free and open access to the Single Market is hugely important to lots of UK businesses, mine included. Only this week I've had 2 emails from clients, stating that they are cutting all spending in what they call 'non critical' areas, whilst they access the impact of Brexit. Believe me this is going on up and down the country. Unless the government gets a grip and stops sending out mixed messages we are heading into properly difficult times. |
Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 11886710)
Are you expecting a tax cut as a result of Brexit?
Also this isn't just about tariffs. Free and open access to the Single Market is hugely important to lots of UK businesses, mine included. Only this week I've had 2 emails from clients, stating that they are cutting all spending in what they call 'non critical' areas, whilst they access the impact of Brexit. Believe me this is going on up and down the country. Unless the government gets a grip and stops sending out mixed messages we are heading into properly difficult times. he was in the middle of a protracted two year negotiation to merge his law firm with a German counter part post Brexit vote, the deal is now off - personally he is still more than OK inconsequential to everyone posting on SNR - but as you say Brexit IS having consequences in every single area of the UK economy |
Looks like Nissan planning build another car here !
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886712)
a very good friend of mine is one of the top patent lawyers in the country
he was in the middle of a protracted two year negotiation to merge his law firm with a German counter part post Brexit vote, the deal is now off - personally he is still more than OK inconsequential to everyone posting on SNR - but as you say Brexit IS having consequences in every single area of the UK economy On the other hand the protracted negotiations between the EU and Canada have been scuppered by one tiny region of Belgium voting it down. The deal may eventually be saved but it has caused massive frustration and embarrassment all round, a triumph for 3.5 million Wallonians over 540+ million Europeans and Canadians. In the future the UK can negotiate its trade deals without having to care what an obscure group of Europeans may think or vote, and when the European Court of Justice can no longer interfere with decisions taken in UK courts that will be another considerable bonus. |
Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886727)
On the other hand the protracted negotiations between the EU and Canada have been scuppered by one tiny region of Belgium voting it down. The deal may eventually be saved but it has caused massive frustration and embarrassment all round, a triumph for 3.5 million Wallonians over 540+ million Europeans and Canadians.
In the future the UK can negotiate its trade deals without having to care what an obscure group of Europeans may think or vote, and when the European Court of Justice can no longer interfere with decisions taken in UK courts that will be another considerable bonus. it also blows a hole in the myth that the head of BMW will have the final say in the trade negotiations |
Originally Posted by dpb
(Post 11886726)
Looks like Nissan planning build another car here !
Officially it hasn't been decided yet, but I doubt the Government would let Nissan leave, there are thousands of jobs around here that depend on them. |
Originally Posted by Norman Dog
(Post 11886745)
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/our-re...hqai-1-8193677
Officially it hasn't been decided yet, but I doubt the Government would let Nissan leave, there are thousands of jobs around here that depend on them. |
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886741)
yes, that maybe so
it also blows a hole in the myth that the head of BMW will have the final say in the trade negotiations How so? The German government certainly can't ignore its vehicle manufacturers even though they, the manufacturers, can't have any final say in the final outcome. And if some no account countries like Latvia, Croatia or Luxembourg, just to name a few of the EU hangers on, decide to put the trade boot in to the UK then doesn't this just confirm that we really should have no part of such an imbalanced community? |
Originally Posted by JGlanzaV
(Post 11886749)
There were thousands of jobs in the mines, british steel etc, didnt stop the goverment ****ing them off down the road and turning vast swathes of wales etc into jobless wastelands?
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I have been looking at a number of roles in London, and many of the recruitment processes have been stopped due to Brexit uncertainty. There are companies who don't want to make large investments or long term commitments while in a period of uncertainty about what the future may look like, this is turn is already causing job losses. Will be interesting to see if the period of uncertainty is worse than the actual outworking once the exit deal is negotiated.
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We'll go from uncertain we're shafted to certain we're shafted.
Fingers crossed Trump wins then the Americans can have their dumbest population crown back. |
There are too many people waving the white flag of surrender, determined to see the worst in everything and to make certain everyone else does too. Thank God there are those in the UK with the backbone to see this through despite the best efforts of the whingers and hand wringers.
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There's nothing good to see, you were conned plain and simple, shame you don't have the backbone to admit it.
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None of us, including politicians, journalists and economists know what the eventual outcome will be. Those doom and gloom merchants the remoaners are just seeing the negative propaganda. Anyone making plans or changing their thoughts or recruitment processes due to the "uncertainty" would have just as much reason to recruit based on the UK's ability to trade with whoever we want in future. Its only people panicking that devalues the pound.
According to Newsnight EU politicians are trying to persuade us not to leave, we are a major player after all. Perhaps if we were offered better terms and regulations it wouldn't need to happen. As for Germany, well BMW may be a major player at the moment. But that could all change if its at all true that Gergman lawmakers want to ban the internal combustion engine being produced in the future .... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b01fa2b9055c11 Add to this just how fast Tesla are growing and the Model 3 taking unprecedented amounts of pre orders, who's going to buy a gas guzzling 3 series or A4 when a 4 door electric car will probably be available for under 40grand. Can Germany afford not to deal with us or at least put pressure on to make a deal with us as lucrative for us as possible. |
Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886754)
How so? The German government certainly can't ignore its vehicle manufacturers even though they, the manufacturers, can't have any final say in the final outcome. And if some no account countries like Latvia, Croatia or Luxembourg, just to name a few of the EU hangers on, decide to put the trade boot in to the UK then doesn't this just confirm that we really should have no part of such an imbalanced community?
but here goes it shows the reality - and the reality is that you have to get an agreement that is agreeable to all 27 nations - each one has a veto that it wont be easy / quick - and the German Car industry won't run the negotiations in there self interest even though they may try - the EU simply does not work like that I am sure BMW and the German car industry will make there views known - so will Poland and the Eastern European states over "free movement" so will all the other EU states that will all have their individual negotiation points I have no doubt that a "deal" will be done (with Canada and the UK) but imv it will be a fudge - and ultimately will leave the UK in a worse position and the argument that the EU will be mean to us - so we are best of out, is a moronic cop out argument, that Donald Trump would be ashamed of |
Originally Posted by Norman Dog
(Post 11886757)
True enough. Bet that doesn't happen with the City of London. :mad:
as I said earlier the £350 Million saving may well go to subsidise the bankers in the city to continue access / passporting rights |
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886790)
well I thought it was sort of obvious
but here goes it shows the reality - and the reality is that you have to get an agreement that is agreeable to all 27 nations - each one has a veto that it wont be easy / quick - and the German Car industry won't run the negotiations in there self interest even though they may try - the EU simply does not work like that I am sure BMW and the German car industry will make there views known - so will Poland and the Eastern European states over "free movement" so will all the other EU states that will all have their individual negotiation points I have no doubt that a "deal" will be done (with Canada and the UK) but imv it will be a fudge - and ultimately will leave the UK in a worse position and the argument that the EU will be mean to us - so we are best of out, is a moronic cop out argument, that Donald Trump would be ashamed of Moronic eh? So you believe that the many no-hoper members of the EU (who ought never to have been elected to membership in the first place) should be able to stymie sound agreements just because they can? The UK leaving the EU means it can deal with whomsoever it wishes without the disproportionate influence of the hangers on being brought to bear on the outcome. We will have to await the outcome of the negotiations with the EU, but please keep any patronising responses in that respect to yourself. |
Originally Posted by dpb
(Post 11886726)
Looks like Nissan planning build another car here !
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Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886795)
Moronic eh? So you believe that the many no-hoper members of the EU (who ought never to have been elected to membership in the first place) should be able to stymie sound agreements just because they can? The UK leaving the EU means it can deal with whomsoever it wishes without the disproportionate influence of the hangers on being brought to bear on the outcome. We will have to await the outcome of the negotiations with the EU, but please keep any patronising responses in that respect to yourself.
so we need to leave the EU |
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886813)
lol, you make it sound like we can't trade with anyone else but the EU
so we need to leave the EU Either you can't read or I can't, or perhaps it's your strange sentence spacing that confuses me. Within the EU our ability to trade with the rest of the world has been limited, hence little progress with India, China, Australia, Brazil etc. With the UK out of the EU that will change dramatically, also we will no longer be lumbered with the propping up of the majority of the EU. Perhaps when the EU collapses, as it surely will, the prosperous countries can regenerate it and do the job properly next time round. I'm not hopeful though. |
Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886825)
Within the EU our ability to trade with the rest of the world has been limited, hence little progress with India, China, .
and explain EXACTLY how is it limited |
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886846)
really, how come Germany is able to pretty successfully
and explain EXACTLY how is it limited |
Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886825)
Either you can't read or I can't, or perhaps it's your strange sentence spacing that confuses me. Within the EU our ability to trade with the rest of the world has been limited, hence little progress with India, China, Australia, Brazil etc. With the UK out of the EU that will change dramatically, also we will no longer be lumbered with the propping up of the majority of the EU.
Perhaps when the EU collapses, as it surely will, the prosperous countries can regenerate it and do the job properly next time round. I'm not hopeful though. |
Originally Posted by JackClark
(Post 11886852)
It's not, but now we can spend load of cash establishing and maintaining the same deal ourselves. That's the sort of thing that makes politicians happy, what a con.
we will simply make that a condition of the free trade deal we strike (and make no mistake it will be a freer trade deal than the free one we have just left ) how can you get a "freer" trade deal than an already free trade deal - well you obviously don't understand !!!!! |
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886862)
presumably the extra costs involved in shipping our stuff to China, India Australia - well we simply say that they have to pay those additional costs
we will simply make that a condition of the free trade deal we strike (and make no mistake it will be a freer trade in than the free one we have just left ) how can you get a "freer" trade deal than an already free trade deal - well you obviously don't understand !!!!! |
Originally Posted by JackClark
(Post 11886864)
No I mean the hoards of staff that we'll need to establish and mantain trade deals we already had.
the massive administrative overhead in it all |
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
(Post 11886866)
oh yeah there is that of course
the massive administrative overhead in it all |
Originally Posted by Paben
(Post 11886773)
There are too many people waving the white flag of surrender, determined to see the worst in everything and to make certain everyone else does too. Thank God there are those in the UK with the backbone to see this through despite the best efforts of the whingers and hand wringers.
Incidentally, can anyone name anything we'd actually export to Australia? |
Originally Posted by neil-h
(Post 11887020)
Easily said if you don't have to deal with the consequences.
Incidentally, can anyone name anything we'd actually export to Australia? Oh poor you, it's so unfair so have a good whinge as that always helps in any situation. |
Originally Posted by neil-h
(Post 11887020)
Easily said if you don't have to deal with the consequences.
Incidentally, can anyone name anything we'd actually export to Australia? |
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