It's also worth looking at the number of people affected. Tata directly employee 15000 people in the UK (then there's also the harder quantify number of secondaries which rely on those 15000 for work), where as RBS employ 108000 with a further 24 million customers globally.

Personally I would love to keep the steel industry along with any other industry that keeps us as self-sufficient as possible, though am realistic at the amount of money it will cost us. How much extra tax are we willing to pay?

I also agree that we need to be more protective of our national industries in the world market and need a leader that can impact and influence on the world stage.

Lol, you must be really smarting - buying to all delingpoles science denial, agenda 21, NWO cr@p

I too would prefer to keep the steel industry going for the same reasons, once it's gone, it's gone for good as it would be too cost prohibitive to restart.

If that's a joke, then HAHA, you got me. I actually believed there for a minute you decided to reply to an accusation of an ad hom attack.... with an ad hom attack! :brickwall

No-one with a good, sound, well-reasoned argument would do that would they.... would they?

What is the uk`s economy based on at this time in you`r opinion.

its a stable environment , but most all its good place for foreigners to hide their dirty money

and the consequent trickle down effect

It's based on around 80% in the services sector.

So no manufacturing.

I never said that.

From an island that was renound for manufacturing ,we end up as what?.

The trade unions have a lot to answer for with this issue. The wage bill for the industry on a whole does not relate to the profitability of the industry which makes it a poor investment for any foreign investor.

The UK government could step in and run this heavily subsidised industry but they won't as it would be another addition to the deficit with no way of making it profitable without a very hardline approach to running it which they wouldn't have the stomach for imo.

There are a few industries in the UK that command very high wages such as oil and gas, whisky and this. Oil and gas is going through the same and when it comes out the other side it will be a changed industry I'm sure with a more modest wage bill with increased efficiency from their operations.

A more modest wage bill is ok if the price of essentials is reasonable but when the government put VAT on gas and electricity which provide the basic to a home what chance does the common person have to see a bright future with all the industries which the british isles were renound for disappearing and now being reliant on importing goods and fuel and being ruled by the EU.

I think the counter-argument is; should UK manufacturing have to pay a higher price for steel? Right now it's dirt cheap. It would be a brave man that argued that they should pay some kind of premium that their international competitors don't have to pay

yes, this sort of thing is sort of inevitable in a globalised economy

things can often be done/produced cheaper elsewhere

it will be interesting when the Chinese can do financial service cheaper

Why cant they , surely its just reputation ?



(and tradition )

It will be indeed! Collapse of the UK economy perhaps?
It's a bubble at the moment IMHO anyway.

That's why we need out of the EU :rolleyes::lol1: Then we can pull up the drawbridge and hide from the entire global economy, British materials for British products and all that.

Yes not quite as fanciful as it first appears

There was an article only the other week examine the state of the IT infrastucture that underpinds our banking/financial sector

essentially the core backend systems are antiquated 20 or 30 year old technology, intergrated with new technology in a piecemeal and haphazard way - essentially held together with bits of string


IT structures so Byzantine that any meaningful upgrade is almost impossible


Conditions ripe for new entrants into the market

The global economy has changed vastly over the post war years of the last century. "Western" economy has shifted away from manufacturing to service based economy. If we are to compete and remain a prosperous nation we have to keep up with such changes. The developing countries have largely taken over manufacturing role in the make up of the global economy. The UK is a major financial player in the globlised market and a financial hub for Europe, that is what we are now. This doesn't mean to say we are no longer leading innovators and researchers in other industries, we have a massive pharma-tech industry with plenty of innovation in that sector, also we are world leaders in specialised manufacturing and fabrication. Take for example, most of the major motorsport teams reside in the UK because the UK have the knowledge and skills to innovate which inevitably trickles down to the rest of the sector.

Be more like North Korea! :lol1:

be even more intresting over next ten years when teh retail service industry shrinks away due to more and more online sales and delivery

Theres got to be a finite number of coffee shops any one highstreet can support

Traveling around the UK get to visit many manufacturing businesses,It has been in decline more since 2008.places such as GKN,Denso,and the steel places in Redcar pre 2008 we were bringing out full trailer loads 3/4 times per week,now its just small pallet loads,mostly don't fill half trailer.Esco in Guisbrough that closed year or so ago moved production to Europe,Caterpillar now are moving some of their production either back to America or places like India.Their big plant in Desford have cut night shifts,made redundancies mainly that was agency.Apparentley a company in China are making the equivalent construction machines to caterpillar for cheaper and mass production.I've visited many companies whose workforce gets smaller and smaller.Seems anything to do with steel,construction,plant machinery is dying.

an advert for eu remaining , and the only one

a euro trade block to stop china dumping and them stuffing large taxes for us selling stuff to them

In addition to all the valid points previously what about Tata owned Jaguar , Land Rover etc. ?. Taking in to consideration the mooted cherry picking of the best bits of the UK Steel industry and all the other points. Close the Tata steel plants and where will the steel for those car plants come from ?. If the government are proposing a buy British plan and tariffs as they say (They quote Cross Rail and HS2 etc.) that puts those profitable businesses at risk also. This is a game of chess that has been playing for months and the media are now just moving their pawns . At the end of the day the British Steel Pension scheme is the best there is that modern business can no longer afford , The EU has the government by the nuts and the Government want to save money as well as face however they can by any means possible . Its all spin and as usual the British worker suffers as does Britain . But never mind if we have another war we can always get the steel to make weapons cheap from China , oh hang on .................................................

It wouldn't be so bad if any of them paid any ****ing tax.:D

Ah........but I hear they give out lucrative directorships to ex-ministers?

india output set to outstrip uk this year ?

All good and well but unless they can prove it to compete with cheap subsidised Chinese steel, it's a waste of time.