Issues when mapping new alcatek
 

I've been to Scoobyclinic today for a new Alcatek and a few other bits. Upon mapping they came across a few problems. They was struggling to push the power as it was detonating. They said the inlet is all okay as they could tell on the laptop. Mods are;

4 bar map sensor (fitted today)
3 port boost solenoid (fitted today)
340lph pump (fitted today)
Ported headers
Harvey smith up pipe
Cobra trackday friendly decat back
Perrin induction kit
Silicone inlet pipe

The rest of the car is standard.

The car is a 2004 sti type UK

THe fuel I had in it was half vpower and half tesco99. They said its detonating at 4500rpm and when they adjusted one cylinder it would jump to another.
It only made 316 on the dyno and even pat said it should do more. They suspected the belt could be out a tooth or bad fuel. They advised it was okay to drive it careful until I take it back for a map tweak once I've got it sorted.
Has anyone had a similar issue and any ideas please? I'm having the belt changed as I haven't done it in my ownership. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Why didn't they pull the belt covers off and have a look?

It was a Saturday and was running short on time. They said I could of left it there and they will look into it but I wasn't keen on leaving an open cheque. I've regapped the plugs and emptied the old fuel and now on just vpower. Having the belt done next week then il go back and see how it goes on the dyno. Unsure what else it could be really.

Update on this. Been back today for a dyno run and to check for any det after I've replaced the timing belt, plugs and full tank of vpower. On the dyno they said it has stopped detonating but when they road tested it they said it is still in 5th under load. Really puzzled with what could be causing it. Has anyone any ideas please?

Surely clinic etc are the best people to advise what is wrong with it? After all they have it there and can see what is going on....

They wouldn't really say. All they said was I could leave it and they will look into it. I'm not keen on leaving it as it could easily run into a massive bill. I can do a lot of the work myself or my friends garage for what I can't do. I'm just after any suggestions or reccomendations to check first

comprestion test ??????

thanks. Yeah think that will show alot. Also a leak test.

Just been reading up that knock sensors can pick up vibrations etc reporting det. I've fitted a beat rush pitch mount recently and have noticed an increase in noise level inside. Have read about having them relocated. Not sure if it relates to my problem really

Wouldn't or couldn't Gaz? Take it elsewhere, IMO.

On arrival they told me it just wanted checking off on the road for the map. I said I wanted it to go back on the rollers to see if there is an improvement. After the rollers they said it wasn't detting and they didn't have to adjust any timing but then on the road signing it off they said it was detting. Just seems like there not bothered to me. Seemed like they wouldn't give me any ideas to what it could be and was after the work to look into it theirself. It has cost me nearly 2k now with the Alcatek and fitting pump,3 port.

You usually find on here when people have had maps what have had issues some mappers spend a few hours looking into it or give some info what it seems like

Is there anywhere else, decent, close down your neck of the woods Gaz? I'm not that familiar with the Humberside-ish area.

Zen are in Wellingborough(SP) which is south of you. RCM in Leicester, Cams are Blackburn way, https://www.facebook.com/CamsPerformance.

I personally wouldn't take it back to ScoobyClinic, as they are seemingly not interested in helping you fix whatever issue yourself. Did Pat map it? I've always found him very approachable, had a good chat to him last year about ALS on early GC8's.

Yes mate pat mapped it beginning of august Just had a look and rcm is only approx 2.5 hrs away so might give them a call. Will get the tests done first that I can do so I can out rule some possibilities

Not really sure what you expect, they said to leave it with the to try to get to the bottom of it, you decided not to and then moan when they don't give you an answer as to why?

what they suposed to to, guess? there's dozens of things it could be and without given the chance to find the fault being a tad harsh don't you think?

Not really, all I asked was some possibilities that I could check out on my own. With the price hour for leaving it there am sure it would escalate quickly. They charged me 3 hrs to fit my own pump and a 3 port which is rather extreme.

Fueling is okay, new timing, new plugs, correct fuel, they said the inlet was fine

Just interested if anyone has had any similar issues and possible causes

If the easy things are ok then gonna take more looking at to find out what it is. Could be any number of things serious or not so serious but unless they are checked how are they supposed to know? Just give you a list of things ten pages long?

il get the leak test done and then will know if it's internal or not.

Anyone know if you detect det through the knock sensor?

Is that not exactly what the knock sensor does? lol

Not harsh at all, IMO.

It's fine on the rollers being mapped, but, detting on the road when being mapped. Rollers is a much harsher environment.

They'll have an idea what's causing it, but, they are a business, so obviously they'll want the work/money to rectify the issue.

Rollers a much harsher environment? how so?

Consistent torque loading
Consistent suspension load
Consistent sound so easier to spot det
Consistent airflow
Consistent airtemp
Consistent grip levels
No need to worry about bends, other cars, cats, deer, dogs, sheep, cows or even horses jumping out at you
Safer to suddenly come off the throttle without arse end overtaking front end

I'd say your wrong on that :thumb:

Shall we get a list of possible faults going then? have we got enough room on a post? or are they supposed to have a psychic ball?

Start with engine is fubar and needs rebuilding at oo £4k
finish the list with slightly damaged 50p bit of wire taking 3 mins to replace at oo wont charge you for it

and everything in between.

what's a few grand between friends? Until the fault is found there is no way to even take a guess at the price. Hence leave it with them. You choose not to then thats your choice.

So yes you are being harsh

Ended up costing me a grand once when I was there for mapping, several issues mostly down to poor workmanship from the place I had an engine rebuild done at, I had to leave it with them but they got it sorted in the end.

There's just no way of knowing what it could be until you start digging into it, and if it's anything like mine was with several parts needing changing, and a cracked airbox being one of the problems along with fuel pressure issues, plugs incorrectly gapped, it's almost impossible to guess at, which is why I suspect they're reluctant too.

As above, there's a multitude of things that it could be from a poor spray pattern on one injector to a dodgy cam sensor and everything else in between, that's just the way it goes, you're just going to have to bite the bullet and leave it with them if you want it sorting.

Pat is at the top of the tree when it comes to mapping so going else where isn't going to cost any less or get a better service, it's just going to cost you more if anything and mean you have to travel further for any future issues/ map tweaks.

Sorry John, i'd not long been in when I posted last night.

I disagree, a dyno cell is a much harsher environment for a car than out on the road. Where do you drive? On the road or a Dyno? ;)

That's not the point I was trying to convey though.

Going by the OP's posts, it was mapped on the rollers and the map checked on the road. Det free on the rollers, but, detting on the road. All that has changed is it's out in the real world and not a simulated one. ;)

The fact that the mapper is checking the map, at the time, would point to they have an idea of what the problem is, but are seemingly unwilling to say.

You're a fan of SC, fair enough. :thumb: The fact they charge £108 for a set of £30 brake pads is enough to tell me not to go there.

http://shop.scoobyclinic.com/index.p...product_id=227

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Su...bb95dc3&000036

Apologies to the OP, as this is digressing, it's merely to highlight why I personally would take it elsewhere.

I'm getting the leak test done next week so hopefully that will show if it's engine or not. All I've asked if anyone has had any issues similar before and the most likely cause. I know there is alot to check and I will work through them to find the problem.

Explain why you think its a harsher environment?


All the car gets tested on the road after map so it doesn't mean something was suspected to be wrong at all.

Not gonna get involved in a price discussion chap, no idea on that side of things.

I have recently stopped using Tesco 99. My car was running like crap over two tanks and the last tank dropped to 16mpg. Car had a cough and the power wasn't there. The only time it ever did that before was when I put 95 ron in by accident. Put in some Esso 97 and everything back to normal, performance back, cough gone and mpg jumped easily back to 28. Conclusion? I paid for 99 but got 95 RON. The 340R map is quite unforgiving. In case your wondering I am saying could have been crap fuel causing the det.

The cause for Det could be many things as said

Intercooler not efficient and as temps increase higher up the rev range, with timing being that much more advanced causing a hotter combustion gas

Poor plugs or coils not igniting the fuel hence the temp igniting it for you

too advanced timing ,even if a previous engine could handle 20 degrees advanced, this engine may not etc

good luck bud

On the basis of road vs rollers, id prefer a road map, its where the car stays, natural air rather than forced air from a huge fan

rollers for pure power
road for driveability

both for an awesome setup lol

Results back today after having the cylinder leak test

Cylinders;
1 20%
2 25%
3 20%
4 30%

there not that good to be honest, have you double checked the timming?, anything under 10% is good.

According to Subaru factory specs, 8% is the limit for leakdown before they consider it (in need of rebuild)

did they say were the leak was coming from inlet outlet or crankcase. The way this works is you put a piston at top dead center (TDC) of the compression stroke (all valves closed), replace the spark plug with a pressure fixture, and pressurize the cylinder. Then you hold that pressure and measure the rate at which the pressure leaks out of the combustion chamber. While the pressure is leaking out you listen to three different places, the intake manifold to determine if an intake valve is leaking, the exhaust manifold/pipe to see if an exhaust valve is leaking, or the crankcase oil filler hole to see if it's leaking past the rings.
stolen from NASIOC.com