Maybe he'll create another big disaster to show us how much he loves us

He already has, it's called humanity.

to the question posed - "what are we without it"

I am afraid it has all of it, it explains the belief/faith in the supernatural in human development very well

the theory of Evolution by Natural Selection - is quite simply one of the most beautiful and simple scientific theories of all time.

Man's disobedience is disastrous.

Would you prefer humanity to evolve towards a Christ-like consciousness or devolve toward that of the animal? If we're talking archetypes, who should we look to emulate? Additionally, where has social Darwinism got us?!

You and I seem to be engaging in a 'might is right' reversal of positions. We're both cherry-picking.

Agreed.

lol, don't try and taint me with "Social Darwinism", that concept has nothing to do with the theory of Evolution

and is often a tactic used by "deniers"

To what?

FFS we are animals, high thinking (in most cases, but SN proves otherwise sometimes), evil, vindictive and every other emotion.

With an ability to free think and not be lead by some undefined deity put about by people who cannot explain evolution.

While we are on the subject, why do we refer to god's as "he" ?

I'm not trying to taint you, apologies if that's how it came across. Nonetheless, whether it be eugenics or greed is good or survival of the fittest or übermensch, humanity, as far as I'm concerned, without Christ as the moral compass, is heading toward a materialist dystopia governed by the law of the jungle. My goodness, just look around you!

Maybe, but I don't deny evolution.

Disobedience to God.

Yes :-)

I find the religious arguments about whose imaginary friend is the most powerful, hilarious.

Atheist and proud.

Which is what?

Yes, and we're to battle those dark traits and the way to life is through Jesus.

Yes, we have free will. Look at the state of us!

Because we can only know the character of God the Father through His Son: Jesus Christ. Jesus was a man and the incarnation of God and such God is a man.

Are you asking me to define disobedience, God or both?

'He' is used to refer to a male ...

Genesis 1:27 "God created man in his own image"; because man is a likeness of God's image, it would suggest God is He.

Brother! :thumb:

Who created, women, then? Who do have the likeness with? :confused: I need to know. :mad:

And lets face it, if God were a woman then sperm would taste of chocolate....

Genesis 2:22

It's to be read allegorically; I'm sure some of my brothers and sisters will interpret it literally, but I find that position deeply untenable.

I am afraid at the risk of repeating myself, the issue of stopping humanity heading to a dystopia ruled by the law of the jungle is very simple and rather mundane

it is to address poverty and inequality, the lack of education and ignorance and the sense of powerlessness over ones lives

simple really

and ironic (but not surprising) is that where religion is involved you get ALL of the above - in spades

Forget about your brothers and sisters, how do you explain it allegorically? Please tell, I'm all ears. <pulls up a chair>

Make anything up, come on! I'm getting impatient. :mad:

ahhhh I see. The Bible is a bit like the pick and mix counter at the sweetshop? You only believe in the bits you want to. :thumb:

You believe humans can achieve this without God, I don't believe they can. Sorry for the short answer, but Swati's making demands of me. Can I come back to it?

Genesis 1 and 2 are mythological and in the same genre as other near eastern literature of the time. Whilst it contains theological truths (CS Lewis calls it 'true mythology') Adam and Eve are archetypal and not, in my view, historical. I need to leave work now, but will give you my interpretation of the rib story later.

Sure, some of the Bible is literal truth, some mythological, some allegorical and some historical. All scholars (theist, atheist and agnostic) accept this. Jesus talked in parables.