What suspension mods for a fast road setup - classic?
 

So in the very near future I'll be getting a classic and would like some advice on what suspension mods to get in order to build something that feels good on the road.

I don't really know much about coilovers other than the cheap ones are apparently terrible and I really don't want a car that rattles your teeth on a cats eye.

Do braces really make that much difference? Like front, rear, lower h brace etc. I appreciate bars can change the feel of a car as I put an RS4 roll bar on my A4TDI and it does feel like the rear is better behaved.

I want to make changes I'll actually feel rather than just chuck stuff on it because thats what everyone else does :D

How far can I get with a budget of £1000 on suspension work?

1998 Type R

Bilsteins struts (WR sports package) + P1 springs
24mm ARB
Rear droplinks
ALK
TCA bushes (knackered)
D bushes (knackered)
Steering rack bushes (worth doing as easy to change and cheap and give the steering a better feel imo)
STI lateral and trailing arm kit (STI brackets replaced droplinks)
17" wheels
P1 geometry
H Brace
T1R tyres (which I don't recommend on greasy road surfaces).

What front bar do you run? And what setting is the rear on?

Cheers

i had a geo set up done last summer and it was best 100 quid i spent i think on the car £ for £!

Mine is only a lowly uk spec turbo wagon but has :

22mm rear ARB
STi front ARB
H&R springs on bilstien Shocks
Geo Set up
Diff Brace
Front and rear cusco strut braces
H brace underside
Floor brace (behind front seats)
Replaced the bushes with better ones
Yoko Parada Spec 2 tyres all round (205 / 40 / 17)

Think that's about it but all of that didnt come to more than about a grand

If you put some better tyres on you'll see even better results. :)

these were recommended to me they seem to do good job for what i use the car for

im not going to spunk 800 quid on a set

Standard and rear is on middle hole.

I've looked at your specs as you've given me good advice (imo) over the last year or so hence why I've spent a load on suspension bits :)

Have yet to try your geo settings but new tyres are in order as the Toyos aren't happy with greasy roads and me making the car feel stiffer.

legacy classic
 

I run mine with 35mm drop h & r springs with standard shocks and poly bushes all round with 25 mm ARB front and back. With a descent set of boots thats all it needs to stick like the proverbial to a blanket

Thanks for all the comments.

After you had the above completed, how different did the car feel - day to day and when pressing on.

i dont use it day to day, But to be honest

its like a skeleton having a tug in a biscuit tin

Mines a daily driver and it wont even let go when i want it to

He he, thanks - I love spending other people's money for them :)

I'm guessing the Toyo's haven't the traction to support the rest of your set-up?

What are you thinking of changing to?

Speak to the Guru aka Simon at Chevron he's the man when it comes suspension set ups.

They were decent enough before I started replacing all the bits but because the car is tighter/stiffer they just don't inspire confidence.

As for replacements that's a big question...local car place has started dealing with Vredstein and they seem favourable,I occasionally look here http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/

Bars always make the biggest difference and are biggest bang for buck

If you're in any way not sure, why not start with a thicker rear bar, which will 'trim the car' nicely. From there you can see how the car behaves and change/improve/upgrade aspects you don't like/want to change?

But, what does the car have fitted now? Tyres? Wheel dia? BHP?

And what are your roads like - smooth and well maintained, or or small choppy bumpy lanes?

LOL - I meant that post for the OP, but still...

Yeah I did think that when typing it out lol,I'll remove the post as it just clutters up the OPs thread

I don't have a car yet - will probably be a 4 door UK classic.

Eventually running either a VF35 or TD05 so looking at 330-350hp.

Wheels will be 17s as I had 18s before and I think they're too big.

Tyres - up for any recommendations!

Roads round here are mostly smooth - lots of lanes but again they are well looked after.

If it's a weekend hooner, personally I would go straight for a 22 front and 24 rear bar and decent rubber (17 is the 'best' size) and see how she is then. That will suit your smoother roads better

(BTW - where do you live with such well kept roads :) ? ours in the Midlands are seriously crap)

If the car is more of a DD, then 22 rear bar only

If the car has been lowered then this will make a big difference to what needs doing

I like stiff side-walled tyres on the IMpreza. Tightens things up nicely, so Bridgestone, Yokohama etc)

In the process of deciding what tyres to fit to some 17" wheels I bought for my car... and struggling to decide whether 215/40 or 215/45 is the way to go. It'll never be proper low, at most 20-25mm on some springs.


Cheers,
Grant

I went with 215/40 on Bilsteins and P1 springs (not sure how much lower it is than standard though)

Stop me if you've heard this one, but isn't the FRONT arb supposed to be stiffer than the rear, in order to cut down on understeer?

Mine has solid droplinks, better adjustable rear arb, polybushes, coilovers, anti-lift kit and a full geometry setup.

The late, great Harvey Smith thought it was "pretty good......"

IMHO

KYB excel-g dampers £250
P11L springs with bump stop kit £285
Whiteline kca335 front top mounts (make sure latest version 10.9 stamped on stud heads and 6302z sealed bearings) £150
Roll centre kit £150

With P11L springs:
19mm front, 20mm rear bars, on poor/undulating roads - fit better quality end links and bushes.

21/22mm front bar on smooth, flat roads - adjust rotation/ride/stability to taste, with 20/21/22mm rear bar. Personally I'd have the smallest rear bar possible, to ensure the rear inside wheel stays on the ground.

With WR15R/T springs - don't bother using them on poor roads (need kyb agx, koni inserts, late version Bilsteins or kyb inverted-better be be in first class condition):
19mm front, 18mm rear bars on undulating roads

21/22mm front bar on smooth/flat roads/occasional track days - adjust rotation/ride/stability to taste, 18/19/20/21/22mm rear bar

If 2 racing drivers can have 30% difference in rear bar stiffness, on the same car, and run the same times, on the same track (thank you 'lookout'), then it's, nigh on, impossible to give 'correct' rear bar suggestions for normal drivers, on changing road conditions and surfaces - other than to say under-rotation is a safer condition than over-rotation. Particularly, if you want to drive your car home from a track day.

I'm not good enough to deal with oversteer, in slower speed situations. If a car is exhibiting that characteristic at slower speeds, chances are it's going to exhibit the same condition, to a greater extent, at higher speeds.

I'll take understeer in a high speed corner, rather than fight a constant battle against oversteer, that I'll eventually loose, to potentially greater consequences.

When changing the balance from oem, I'll have a bigger front or equal bars; thanks

HTH

For the sake of balance :)

I was out in my Type R a few days ago for a 150 miler, for the first time since onset of winter, and the experience was nothing short of stunning :thumb: I had forgotten what the car goes like

Steering input gives the car the sensation of rotating on a pivot, the point of which is my driving seat. This feels a little odd to begin with, but very soon becomes intuitive

This helps the car go around a bend enormously

When pushing on, the wheel can be flicked on corner entry to transfer weight, and the car is already 'turning' and set-up for the bend's exit

Power can be brought back on much earlier to power the car through and out of the bend - it's nothing short of a thing of beauty to use. The car is easy and stable to drive fast - almost drives itself and is devastatingly fast cross country

My Type R has had V5/6 STi red dampers (brought new from a dealer), and currently Bilsteins (P1/WR etc) with OE P1 springs

Front bar is 22 on stiffest setting

Rear is 24 on middle

The car NEVER understeers - something I don't want any of

It also will only oversteer if very aggressively provoked. I never worry about the car oversteering, and consider the balance neutral and safe which is always my number one driving priority

If I set the rear bar to soft, I get understeer :(

The roads I drive on have a mix of pretty much everything in them - yumps, compressions, off-camber, hairpins you name it - 'suspension' copes with with it all with no issue. no rear wheel lifting, jacking etc

The ride is comfortable with a 'float' (springs) which is progressive with loading

I've owned many Impreza's over the years and tried many combinations, so speak from real world experience, not to mention a broken wallet

I have just fitted a rear bar on on my Swift Sport daily for more rotation and dial out factory set understeer

Of course, there are many different ways to skin a cat, as well as different folk having different preferences

Other points perhaps worth a mention:

ALK
Castor mod
Front H brace
Sill brace bars
Diff brace with solid bushings
In-car rear floor brace bar
Drop links, steering bushes
Brembo's
17" Yokohama AD08's
330 BHP

Yes, the most stunning & fun car I've ever owned :)

The castor mod, definitely - a great idea.
Where did you find 10.9 grade bolts of the right length/pitch?

I can't recall. Some nut and fastener place up north I found searching I seem to remember

I've just put new wheels and tyres on my Bug wrx and it already handles better..18's with 225/40/18 Bridgestone Potenza Adrenaline..Not been out in the wet yet!!..I had standard 17's before with Toyo T1r's..I'm just contemplating what suspension setup to do myself!!..

I'm the new kid on the block when it comes to suspension and set up :D It's a very personal thing as you can see above and depends a little on your preference for understeer or oversteer, I'm more like Bonesetter in my preference so.

Fixed perch dampers and springs for me, my Blob Wagons original dampers were like new so I changed the springs only to PCA Dynamics / Prodrives.

I'd say for a road car / daily all you need is STI front and rear bars maybe a 22mm rear whiteline, solid drop links front and rear and polly bush the steering rack and bars then see how it feels for you.

As you make changes you'll start to see what aspects and characteristics you like along with it's failings and adjust / add accordingly which is about where I'm at.

It's a bit never ending but it is fun experimenting and no where near as costly as more power, which IMO is over rated, I'd sooner have a car that handles really well as power really is nothing without control.;)