The Multiverse
Assuming the hypothesis is correct, what kick-started the Multiverse?
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Must be a slow night in the weekly "why are we here" self help workshop
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Originally Posted by Xline
(Post 11540651)
link for suggesting background reading?
And try this for a headf*ck Imagining the Tenth Dimension - Rob Bryanton [FULL CLIP].flv - YouTube |
Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11540645)
Assuming the hypothesis is correct, what kick-started the Multiverse?
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11540685)
In a multiverse, everything that can happen does happen. In an infinite multiverse, everything happens an infinite amount of times. Therefore it cannot possibly have been "kick started". To say so would mean there would have been a beginning and therefore there would be an end and would no longer be infinite.......I think....:D
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The multiverse may be infinite but with limitations.
1. Infinite Universes Scientists can't be sure what the shape of space-time is, but most likely, it's flat (as opposed to spherical or even donut-shape) and stretches out infinitely. But if space-time goes on forever, then it must start repeating at some point, because there are a finite number of ways particles can be arranged in space and time. So if you look far enough, you would encounter another version of you — in fact, infinite versions of you. Some of these twins will be doing exactly what you're doing right now, while others will have worn a different sweater this morning, and still others will have made vastly different career and life choices. |
Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11540704)
If something has a beginning, why does it have to have an end?
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11540784)
Does infinity have an end?
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11540685)
In a multiverse, everything that can happen does happen. In an infinite multiverse, everything happens an infinite amount of times. Therefore it cannot possibly have been "kick started". To say so would mean there would have been a beginning and therefore there would be an end and would no longer be infinite.......I think....:D
In other words there is an inifinite number of possible beiginnings and an infinite number of possible ends to the univers. |
Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11540843)
Of course not, that'd make it finite.
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Originally Posted by neil-h
(Post 11540881)
I thought it was more a case of every possible permutation of our universe (and indeed other universes) all exist and as such at some point any one of those universes will start/finish in anyone of the possible permutations... If that makes sense.
In other words there is an inifinite number of possible beiginnings and an infinite number of possible ends to the univers. |
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11540891)
and therefore, infinity won't have a beginning?
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11540933)
Infinity can have a beginning, but not an end. It's also possible to have a beginning, but not be able to reach it - Zeno's dichotomy paradox.
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11540939)
OK, God is infinite right, has always been around and will be around forever or are you saying God was "born"? :D
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11540944)
No, God (the Father) is supernatural and eternal; the unmoved mover. ;)
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11541212)
OK, let's just take God out of the equation as this multiverse, it's hard enough to get my head round this without any devine influence! :lol1: There is a flaw to Zeno's paradox though, whilst the race is predefined distance and intervals being divided an infinite number of times, the distance between the start and finish is still finite. ie., if the race was for 1 mile all the intervals in between, 1/2 mile, 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, 1/16 mile, and so on to infinity, by adding up all the intervals, it will still equal 1 mile.
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Lol of course its no, but are you sure infinity has a beginning, if time flows backwards you then have an end.
Anyway back to multiverse theory, I can't get my head around how many possible outcomes there would be for one person, let alone the whole planet. I think the matrix (simulation) theory is more likely |
Originally Posted by stedee
(Post 11541306)
Lol of course its no, but are you sure infinity has a beginning,
Originally Posted by stedee
(Post 11541306)
if time flows backwards you then have an end.
Originally Posted by stedee
(Post 11541306)
Anyway back to multiverse theory, I can't get my head around how many possible outcomes there would be for one person, let alone the whole planet. I think the matrix (simulation) theory is more likely
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11541237)
No, it will get very, very close to one mile, but never quite make it!
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11541459)
Sure, that is the theory, and in that race with the infinite number of increments, but it is still defined within a predefined parameter, ie. within the length of that race of 1 mile.
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11541470)
Ok, but I'm not sure of your point.
That's my crack at explaining a multiverse. :thumb: |
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11541596)
Just trying to explain a possible flaw in Zeno's paradox of infinity, it's just a mathematical anomaly for infinity; an infinite series that will still converge to a finite number. In the observed universe, Achilles will catch the tortoise. If in an infinite multiverse where everything that can happen does happen, it can't be "kicked off" because then there would be a point where "everything" does not happen, ie, before "kick off". The number of "universes" within a multiverse therefore cannot be constrained by a finite number.
That's my crack at explaining a multiverse. :thumb: |
Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11541761)
You're confusing the Dichotomy Paradox with Achilles and the Tortoise. Anyway, it's not that important. So your position is that existence had no beginning, yes?
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Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11541798)
No, I'm not, they are one and the same; that in given a distance between point A and point B, that distance can be divided into infinity is a mathematical flaw as it is still within the confines of point A and B.
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11541798)
My position is that infinity, not existence, has no beginning and no end.
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11541844)
Ok, I can live with that.
Again, I won't get bogged down in this as it's mathematically possible for infinity to have no beginning, although it'd be more accurately described as eternity or sempiternity. What about existence then, does it have a beginning or do you simply accept infinite regress? |
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11543656)
I am open to different views, nothing is set in my mind with regards to how it all began if there was a beginning at all.
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11543656)
The currently accepted big bang theory suggests that there was in deed a beginning.
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11543656)
But something for something to exist, there must have been a cause.
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11543656)
What caused the big bang?
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11543656)
You might argue divine intervention.
Originally Posted by jonc
(Post 11543656)
Well, if something is to exist it must have a beginning and I can't see why the possibility of divine intervention should be exempt from this.
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
(Post 11541321)
If we're talking about time then yes, it has a beginning. It's eternity that has no beginning.
Can time flow backwards? My understanding is that it can't, but I'm happy to be proved wrong if you have some maths to the contrary. Elucidate on the matrix theory a little, it sounds interesting. First off though time flows both ways mathematically, it is our perception that it flows one way, the way neutrons fire etc etc, something that did interest me was some scientist said the present is an illusion, if you think about it as scary as it is, it makes sense. How short a time is the present, is it the amount of time it takes for a neutron to fire. Its perception again, how humans cope with reality. The matrix thing I was on about was basically a theory that some super powerful being was running a simulations of the universe on a " super computer". Sounds far fetched but imagine the computing power we would have in a thousand years let alone a million years. The laws of physics are basically the computer code. I think that is the reason why quantum theory and the classic model of physics don't tie up, quantum theory is the true understanding of what exists, the classic model is a coded set of laws for the simulation to run on. |
Originally Posted by stedee
(Post 11544194)
I'll try lol
First off though time flows both ways mathematically, it is our perception that it flows one way, the way neutrons fire etc etc, something that did interest me was some scientist said the present is an illusion, if you think about it as scary as it is, it makes sense. How short a time is the present, is it the amount of time it takes for a neutron to fire. Its perception again, how humans cope with reality. So just because it'll upset/confuse people, this post was on the screen a fraction of a second before you actually perceived it's existance. :thumb: |
Autospell on my phone lol yes of course neuron.
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