Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969327)

Scotland is a different kettle of fish - the EU would potentially see this as winning back a region which will otherwise be leaving the EU, so they're more likely to be in favour. For the record I believe if enough people want that vote for independence, then it should go ahead, but I think focus on it has dwindled since oil prices collapsed, and I think they would choose to remain as part of the UK.

The Catalan vote is different as this throws up a whole host of issues for the EU. Other than it being totally against their ideals, it also raises the question of debt. Even if the Catalan region agreed to take on an equal cut of Spain's debt, based on GDP per capita, that would leave Spain struggling to pay their share, as they lose their most productive region. This would raise bond yields for Spanish debt, increase chances of default - you've got another European debt crisis on your hands before you know it. If they played hard ball and refused to take a cut of Spain's debt then you've got even worse problems.

This would also likely lead to other separatist movements gathering speed - Basque region (another productive area and 2.5m people), Flanders region etc. Again it goes against the EU ideals - they'll want these outbreaks of democracy crushing, but they'll want the host countries government to be the driver in this to protect face for the EU.

What are your views on the Catalan vote, do you believe they should have the chance for a democratic vote for independence?

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969327)

Scotland is a different kettle of fish - the EU would potentially see this as winning back a region which will otherwise be leaving the EU, so they're more likely to be in favour.

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969327)

What are your views on the Catalan vote, do you believe they should have the chance for a democratic vote for independence?

Originally Posted by Sad Weevil (Post 11969330)

Yes I believe they should have the chance of a democratic vote for independence. But only if they are informed of the true facts surrounding the issue ;)

Originally Posted by andy97 (Post 11969383)

It all over the papers that the EU high command are conspicuous by their absence.
A fine old mess Spain has created for it self and now a major headache for the EU aswell as a public's relations disaster

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969403)

Agreed, from their perspective the EU would've been better to do what they did with Greece in 2015 - tell the Spanish government to let the vote go ahead, then if the result isn't what the EU want, declare it illegal.

The absolute last thing the EU wants is regional issues threatening their plans for a superstate. Juncker had already said this vote would be illegal, but clearly they want to local Government (Spain in this case) to be seen as the bad guy, not them. Like you say, conspicuous in their absence, even with regards to the Police brutality - only Guy Verhofstadt breaking ranks to condone it.

The next time there's a demonstration called in Barcelona or whatever they chose to have it, the protestors will know what to expect from the EU-backed stormtroopers, and they'll be ready. It'll get messy.

I see there were protestors outside the EU offices in Edinburgh waving Catalan flags;

https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/st...81623839772673

Really shocked to see even Fire Fighters taking a beating from the EU-backed thugs;

https://twitter.com/EKsaysYES/status/914480530028158976

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11969406)

You're just making it up again.

I know you hate the EU, and will try to pin anything/everything on them. But they're simple not involved in this.

There is absolutely no evidence to support your view here, nothing, zilch.

You are once again shamelessly using this issue to further your reactionary views.

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969408)

Wake up Martin!

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11969409)

Yes come on sheeple wake up:brickwall

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969411)

Do you see Brussels putting out an official statement condemning the actions by member state Spain for the Police brutality? No, because they're acting in Brussels interests/demands. Their silence speaks volumes.

Seriously Martin, just wake up.

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11969412)

Well if you ignore what's in front of your nose, then yes it must be true.

According to your daft view of events, the Spanish government is ok with the vote (despite decades of vehement opposition), and it's the EU that are opposing this. Really?

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969414)

Of course the Spanish government isn't happy with the vote, but you're saying the EU are fine with this?!!! Of course the EU oppose it, we've been over this numerous time, chrriiiiist! You're making out like the EU are impartial, this vote goes against everything they're about, it's the opposite of their goal of a united centrally governed superstate, it's likely to trigger another debt crisis in the Eurozone - they have a vested interest in the vote being stopped or result being overthrown (but too late for that now).

Just take off your EU rose-tined glasses and think about this.

Originally Posted by Sad Weevil (Post 11969418)

The EU has no power or permissions to get involved in a member country's internal issues. Despite what a lot of brexit supporters think, the EU does not rule over Spain. EU member countries actually do have sovereignty. It was the Spanish judicial system that ruled the referendum illegal. That's where the problem started. The Catalunya regional government took the decision to go ahead with it regardless. The Spanish government's response has been appalling and counterproductive. Spain's problem is that if Catalunya became independent, and Galicia and the Basque region followed suit, what would be left of Spain would become unviable as a nation. It's a big nasty mess for sure, but it's not the EU's doing. As I said before, they were pretty silent around the Scottish referendum too. A European Commission spokesperson said to reporters in Brussels: “The commission only has the powers which are given to it and when it comes to this position we have a position which goes back to 2004. It is not an improvised position; it is the result of the competences that we have a position that has been expressed by the President: we must respect the constitutional order and the legal framework of each member state.”

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11969420)

Yeah but..... you know, it's the EU so they must be involved in this. No amount of facts can prevent me from thinking otherwise.

Saved you a post Pete.

Originally Posted by Petem95 (Post 11969421)

Whatever you think, Spain and the EU have come out in a very bad light from this - even left wing media are raising serious questions.

Your total and utter unwavering support for the EU is borderline fanatical, actually almost frightening.

Originally Posted by Sad Weevil (Post 11969424)

I'm confused by the brexit supporters stance on this. ?

Originally Posted by alcazar (Post 11969082)

Hodgy:
I have no idea what part of the UK you are from, or even if English is your first language.

But back when I was at GRAMMAR SCHOOL, the expression "Let's" was a suggestion.

As in, "Let's go to cinemas".

It implied something you'd LIKE to do and was asking if others thought so too. Almost a question.

So your oft-repeated assertion that it means "We will..." is just plain wrong.:rolleyes:

And I'm further afraid that your bitterness is leading you into peppering every post with insults. Time you argued properly and not on a personal level?

Originally Posted by andy97 (Post 11969435)

The difference is the English parliament would not send in the heavy mob over a political vote. Besides I would welcome a referendum in Scotland only to shut up Sturgeon of have them leave.

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 (Post 11969470)

your confused??????


The Bat **** crazy Brexidiots are really confused


The EU can't win

It condemns - it is interfering in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation

It does noting - Oooohh the EU is doing nothing "how outrageous"

when you are so adept as the Brexidiots at hypocritical bull****ting - any position is possible - simultaneously

Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 11969481)

Schrödinger's Brexiters.

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 (Post 11969482)

lol, precisely

can you imagine what the Brexidiots would have said over the death off Ian Tomlinson (Killed by police in a political demo)

if the EU had got involved

they are such laughable hypocritical bull****ters

Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 11969489)

It's unsophisticated sophistry. Simpler to call it cow dung.

My mother and her partner have been up to Wales for a visit and the latter was and is a Brexiter. Over dinner he blamed the EU for everything from the use of the burqa (which I pointed has been banned in France) to the cessation of capital punishment. He's Pete and Alcazar's audience and the audience is large.

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 (Post 11969492)

TBH James, I hardly come across the in them "in the wild" so too speak

we where at a dinner party a few months ago - and it was pretty clear one of the guest was a Brexiteer

he came over as incredibly defensive

my wife just thought he was a bit thick and extremely arrogant (amusingly his wife seemed to agree!!!!!!)

I expect the hard core Brexit Jihadis will simply "hunker down" - and get more and more hysterical making more and more outlandish and crazy claims (as we see on this thread)

the less hardcore probably wish it would all "go away" (but sadly it isn't - not for a long long time - decisions have consequences)