Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518793)

This is why I'm worried about the EU votr . It will be just spin spin spin

Originally Posted by jonc (Post 11518811)

Why was it the "only workable solution"? Alex Salmond aparently had 3 Plan B's if there was no currency union!

Originally Posted by Devildog (Post 11518807)

I'm curious, though, if the results had been reversed would it have been reported as a "resounding" yes. Doubtful.



Don't be so dramatic. You make it sound like there will be a civil war. There were no riots this morning. We didn't all wake up to "I am Legend".

Instead, the streets were quiet.

What's your sudden interest in this all about anyway? Its quite easy for you to jump in now that the vote is known. Shame you avoided all the run up. Hindisght is indeed a wnderful thing.

Yes there will be change, it was always going to happen. But the vast majority of Scots will get on with their lives irrespective of whether they woke up happy or dissapointed today. People of Scotland are used to disapointment. That's the way of this country. Its fault is also its strength.

The Pandora's box is, in my opinion, likely to contain:

Cameron failing to deliver on his promises

Bitterness from England about what little he actually does come good on

Farage gaining support and greater power as a result

Scotland being penalised as a result (with England conveniently forgetting that Scotland is a net contributor per person to the UK economy)

All of which may well lead to a far more challangeing split at some point in the future.

For my part I can only hope none of that happens. But England, particularly, needs to worry about what it does, who it votes for. Because that will affect us all.

Am I disapointed this morning? Yes, along with 1,617,989 other Scots. I see a lost opportunity for positive change. No, there were no guarantees, but there never are.

Do I respect the decision of the 2,001,926 who voted no? Absolutely.

Lets just hope it was the correct one :)

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518831)

Because no currency union would have been as damaging to the rest of the UK as ti would have been to Scotland.

Originally Posted by George Galloway

Now, together, let's get the Tories out.

Originally Posted by Tommy Sheridan

Bosses, bankers, billionaires and millionaires unite with Labour MPs, Tories, UKIP and the UK establishment to celebrate Project Fear

Originally Posted by Ruth Davidson

The status quo has been thoroughly smashed.

Originally Posted by Geezer (Post 11518844)

That's just rubbish, as a currency union would have effectively meant no independence for Scotland as BOE (in reality Westminster) would have to have a degree of control of over Scottish monetary policy.

So according to you, it was damned if they do, damned if they don't, what eactly was the point?

Originally Posted by Devildog (Post 11518825)

Your problem Shaun is that you can only see in black and white. And if you can't get that you are unable to make a decision.

You will never have absolute fact or guarantee in this scenario. You are looking for the impossible.

Sometimes you have to make assumptions. You can roll that ass out of u and me sh!t all you like but this isn't a management training exercise. We are not living in an ideology.

This is the real world where people make assumptions every day. One of my mates is an actuary working in pensions. Yuo do know what an actuary is?

He has to make assumptions. Banks make assumptions. Businesses make assumptions. Assumptions make progress possible.

Its the *basis* of that assumption that matters. Not that is an "assumption"

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 11518842)

Devildog,
My comments were based on having a discussion with no agenda, so please don't try to infer otherwise.

My point was that there is not enough information available to make an informed response. Most "facts" have been based on opinion without clear context.

The fact that with anything I wrote you felt the need to pick me up on a grammar mistake, sort of insinuates an agenda you may have. Let's be adult about the situation.

If the results had been reversed it wouldn't have been a resounding yes. As much as these results have not been a resounding no. No one has "won" here imo - this opens up a whole can of worms.

But good to see we agree on something

Your country IS split on this, what has been, the most important "vote" we've seen and likely to see for some time. I strongly suspect this will have far reaching consequences in your country, as well as the rest of the UK.

It's my opinion and you may or may not agree, but ditch accusations of why I'm joining in the adult discussion here. However, your kind of response is one of the reasons why I couldn't be arsed to get involved in the pre-talk. You want to sit down and talk about something sensibly, cool... I'm all ears. You want to have a rant, make accusations or try to be clever..... talk to the hand.

In regards to your understanding of the opening of Pandora's box, I wouldn't disagree with the majority of what you suspect.

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518824)

Nope, the people of Scotland did what anyone would do when they are told their pensions will be worth less, their salaries will be worth less, they will lose their jobs, their country wlll be bankrupt.... pretty much the rhetoric that your pal Dave and his cohorts were spinning them on the back of he currency lie.... they got scared basically and who can blame them!

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518865)

It's worth remembering that a few months ago the No side had a 20 point lead in the polls. When 'project fear' kicked in towards the end of the campaign the polls narrowed significantly.
That would suggest the exact opposite of what you are hypothesising

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518866)

No it kicked in 10 days ago when the polls started to indicate a 50/50 split and your pal Dave shat himself and cancelled the chimps meeting (aka PMQs) to head north and threaten everyone.

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518866)

No it kicked in 10 days ago when the polls started to indicate a 50/50 split and your pal Dave shat himself and cancelled the chimps meeting (aka PMQs) to head north and threaten everyone.

Originally Posted by Devildog (Post 11518825)

Banks make assumptions. Businesses make assumptions. Assumptions make progress possible.

Originally Posted by Devildog (Post 11518857)

No agenda Shaun. In the interests of transparency, I think you're full of **** and always have. And you've said as much to me so lets not have any pretence here.

Now that's out the way, obviously my country is split on this. The numbers are there for all to see. But we will deal with it and crack on regardless. It's what we do. I disagree with you on the far reaching consequences as far as the split is concerned. So lets leave it at that and maybe revisit these thoughts in 6 months or so.

Rather, I woudl venture that the consequences stem from the fact there was a referendum at all. That's what opened the can of worms.

But good to see we agree on something

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 11518869)

Apologies as I genuinely missed this element.....

I'm sure we could openly "discuss" how assumptions made in the bank and business sector have had catastrophic negative impacts on us and the rest of the modern world - when they've gone Pete Tong. I'm sure we could discuss the instances were it has "paid off" as well. However, when YOU have to make a decision based on this kind of scenario, that could potentially impact YOU.... quite often, you look at it differently.

You can't make an informed decision based on an assumption alone. Turn an assumption into a risk and be clear as to how that will be mitigated, is by far the sensible approach. Again, I'm not aware that this was documented and clearly communicated to the voting community.

Above all... be clear, upfront, open and honest. Which is perhaps something we're not used to in the UK.

Anyway, apologies for taking this slightly "off topic".......

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 11518875)

You've now been 100% open with your agenda, which appears to be me. Shame you couldn't see past that. I've let sleeping dogs lie (life is way too short) from our history.... obviously you can't get past that, which is a shame.

Anyway...... :)

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518867)

Well that's just rewriting history

Originally Posted by Devildog (Post 11518868)

Hmmm...

BOOM! PROOF 'SCOTLAND INDEPENDENCE VOTE' WAS RIGGED! - YouTube

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518898)

Makes you bloody wonder doesn't it?

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518897)

Why?

Did Cameron not cancel PMQs?
Did he and his cohorts not go to Scotland instead?
What universe are you currently resident in?

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518908)

If we stick to the facts...

The negativity of the No campaign was hurting it. They needed to change the record

The 3 party leaders went up there to deliver a positive Unionist message (which they did) look at the speeches they made.

Brown was brought into the fray and made the compelling postive case for the union

They were armed with new powers for Scotland.

It was widely described as a 'love bombing' - a curious term

Ultimately the negative tactics of the campaign was hurting them, not helping hence the narrowing of the polls

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518911)

Are you Alastair Campbell in disguise?

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518923)

Nope. I'm just not going to let you get away with trying to reframe everything to suit your own agenda

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518924)

So instead we'll just reframe it to yours as usual. :Whatever_

Mine isn't an agenda, I just tell it the way it is.

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518925)

No you fcuking don't. You just offer a depressing and negative (oh and there's some irony) world view

Originally Posted by Martin2005 (Post 11518908)

If we stick to the facts...



They were armed with new powers for Scotland.

Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 11518933)

Oh dear, we are getting a bit het up now aren't we? :D

You can pretend all is great if you like and continue to champion a broken politcial system, a corrupt press and a nation going slowly down the pan... that's entirely up to you.

I on the other hand choose reality!