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terzoscooby 09 July 2014 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Mangoletsi Subaru (Post 11465506)
For those that have been asking for exact figures on our full 340 upgrade with exhaust and warranty etc, I have the exact figures now.

The BHP increase is 43.4, and torque is increased by 42 FT LB. The car feels much faster than the figures show, but I am more than happy with the result. I can't upload the print out yet, as it has a registration number on it, but will do ASAP.

John. I would give Scoobyclinic a ring. There is another 60ftlb to be gained with a good map. Power sounds good but you will notice torque on the road.

Mangoletsi Subaru 09 July 2014 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by chris j t (Post 11465576)
Hi John,

If possible could you show both before and after print outs if not all ready doing so. :thumb:

And I think you had mentioned that you may be able to give new figures, ie 0-60.:wonder:

As always John, thanks for your time.

Chris.

I have the printout yes, just need to delete the customers registration number and personal details off there before I can upload it, but will try and do it before I go today. 0-60 times etc will be done next week when we can test it properly.

Been really busy out of the dealership today, working on our next Modifica WRX STi v2. I am afraid I am not doing the 400bhp version anymore, instead I am doing a 450bhp version.

Littleted 09 July 2014 03:26 PM

thatll be a 10k uplift then ?im pretty sure the well renown modifiers wouldn't touch 450 unless the block was fully forged internals ?

Think cheapest quote I got was 7k

Lichfields wanted 20 LOL

Mangoletsi Subaru 09 July 2014 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by Littleted (Post 11465706)
thatll be a 10k uplift then ?im pretty sure the well renown modifiers wouldn't touch 450 unless the block was fully forged internals ?

Think cheapest quote I got was 7k

Lichfields wanted 20 LOL

My target is sub £40k for the car, but absolutely it would have to be and will be forged internals without doubt.

Littleted 09 July 2014 03:42 PM

good number though 450 vroom

Mangoletsi Subaru 09 July 2014 03:44 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Printout attached. This is a car that has had the exhaust and re-map.

terzoscooby 09 July 2014 03:45 PM

Will it be a closed deck block? Getting close to the reliable limit for the standard block.

Mangoletsi Subaru 09 July 2014 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11465717)
Will it be a closed deck block? Getting close to the reliable limit for the standard block.

That was one of the things he was talking to me about today, so maybe yes, but he is the expert, he's done it for over 15 years, so I am in his hands, and we have to build the same tolerances in so that a warranty can be offered on the car as well.

Mangoletsi Subaru 09 July 2014 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by Littleted (Post 11465714)
good number though 450 vroom

Sounds better than 400 :lol1:

Littleted 09 July 2014 04:08 PM

but your so close to 500 it would be rude not to :)

Mangoletsi Subaru 09 July 2014 04:22 PM


Originally Posted by Littleted (Post 11465737)
but your so close to 500 it would be rude not to :)

That would be nice, but have to draw the line on cost somewhere, sadly. :cry:

Mangoletsi Subaru 10 July 2014 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11465582)
John. I would give Scoobyclinic a ring. There is another 60ftlb to be gained with a good map. Power sounds good but you will notice torque on the road.

Another 60 ft lb would make a 100 ft lb in total increase over standard? I assume you mean 60 ft lb total increase over standard. We can and have achieved that, but it puts the engine way too critical on temperature, and there is no way we would cover that on warranty.

If it is 100 ft lb, there must be some serious additional cooling on board, as there is no way a standard engine can run that amount of extra torque for any length of time.

Would be interested to see the list of mods done, and dyno printout.

ScoobyDoo69 10 July 2014 09:23 AM

http://midlandscoobies.invisionzone....opic=33933&hl=

terzoscooby 10 July 2014 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by Mangoletsi Subaru (Post 11466132)
Another 60 ft lb would make a 100 ft lb in total increase over standard? I assume you mean 60 ft lb total increase over standard. We can and have achieved that, but it puts the engine way too critical on temperature, and there is no way we would cover that on warranty.

If it is 100 ft lb, there must be some serious additional cooling on board, as there is no way a standard engine can run that amount of extra torque for any length of time.

Would be interested to see the list of mods done, and dyno printout.

See scoobydoo link above.
It is 100ftlb of torque. But it was mapped by the master Pat Hepburn.

terzoscooby 10 July 2014 11:47 AM

Might be some new figure up today for a billet turbo addition.

Mangoletsi Subaru 10 July 2014 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo69 (Post 11466150)

Not able to view it for some reason?

Mangoletsi Subaru 10 July 2014 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11466221)
See scoobydoo link above.
It is 100ftlb of torque. But it was mapped by the master Pat Hepburn.

What else was done to the car?

terzoscooby 10 July 2014 01:13 PM

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...48108571993273

Try this link.

Mangoletsi Subaru 10 July 2014 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11466282)

Cheers terzoscooby. What else was done as well as re-map?

terzoscooby 10 July 2014 01:54 PM

From memory just Miltek sports cat, Miltek system and remap. The magic is in the mapper.

Mangoletsi Subaru 10 July 2014 02:22 PM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11466312)
From memory just Miltek sports cat, Miltek system and remap. The magic is in the mapper.

OK, studied the map and with the exhaust system and sports cat as well, it does make complete sense now. However this isn't something I would be offering and willing to warrant.

rob84 10 July 2014 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by Mangoletsi Subaru (Post 11466132)
Another 60 ft lb would make a 100 ft lb in total increase over standard? I assume you mean 60 ft lb total increase over standard. We can and have achieved that, but it puts the engine way too critical on temperature, and there is no way we would cover that on warranty.

If it is 100 ft lb, there must be some serious additional cooling on board, as there is no way a standard engine can run that amount of extra torque for any length of time.

Would be interested to see the list of mods done, and dyno printout.

The biggest issue you have with them is the crap radiator which is fitted in std form, they are like this to keep the engine at an optimum higher temperature to get the best fuel efficiency and emissions as possible. your best bet would be go down the route of the earlier hawkeye rad or a big core alloy version. 2.5's have been known to run quite warm when pushed on.

TonyBurns 11 July 2014 01:10 AM

You also have the issue of the clutch, 400lbs of torque is quite a lot to put through it, the map John has is for reliability and drivability to retain the warranty and tbh its the best of both worlds, not just which mapper is best but you need to look at a wider picture on a new car with a warranty.

terzoscooby 11 July 2014 07:56 AM

Well this could be an interesting debate. It is all a question of thermodynamics. Now if both engines are running the same boost it is likely the lower torque one is running hotter as it cannot breath and get rid of the heat from the cylinders so timing has had to be pulled to stop detonation. As the turbo is maxed out at 340bhp it is likely they are both running full boost from 3700rpm. There is more to mapping than winding up the boost and altering fuel and timing tables.

I am sure Subaru don't use a small rad for quick warm up as this can be achieved with a thermostat. More likely cost.

The clutch will depend on the driver if it doesn't slip at 400 ftlb then no issue. And that has been proven Clutches only wear when they are slipping so if you ride it a lot or do lots of launches then expect problems.

redace 11 July 2014 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11466811)
It is all a question of thermodynamics. Now if both engines are running the same boost it is likely the lower torque one is running hotter as it cannot breath and get rid of the heat from the cylinders

:wonder:

Torque is effectively the force produced by each 'bang' in each cylinder, power is a function of this relative to how many of these 'bangs' occur in an amount of time e.g RPM. Not wanting to have to regurgitate years of thermodynamic engineering teachings right now, but I'm certain (without getting into extreme -20 degree turbo anti-lag setups or engines with timing problems) that an engine producing less torque (less bang) does not run hotter.

Mangoletsi Subaru 11 July 2014 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11466811)
Well this could be an interesting debate. It is all a question of thermodynamics. Now if both engines are running the same boost it is likely the lower torque one is running hotter as it cannot breath and get rid of the heat from the cylinders so timing has had to be pulled to stop detonation. As the turbo is maxed out at 340bhp it is likely they are both running full boost from 3700rpm. There is more to mapping than winding up the boost and altering fuel and timing tables.

I am sure Subaru don't use a small rad for quick warm up as this can be achieved with a thermostat. More likely cost.

The clutch will depend on the driver if it doesn't slip at 400 ftlb then no issue. And that has been proven Clutches only wear when they are slipping so if you ride it a lot or do lots of launches then expect problems.

It's actually the other way around Terzoscooby, as redace says, the more torque, the bigger the bang, the more heat, and heat is the killer, that's why with just a re-map we dialled our's back to prevent det or sudden power drop off.

Agree with you on the clutch though, don't see a problem with that at all.

terzoscooby 11 July 2014 05:16 PM

I agree with the bigger bang makes torque but if the gas cannot then get out of the cylinder you get heat soak and pumping losses and retard ignition. So back to my conditions for two identical engines running the same boost pressure but one being able to get rid of the exhaust gases better than the other the result is lower torque and more heat soak.

renny 11 July 2014 05:40 PM

Wow, this thread has evolved since I last visited.

redace 11 July 2014 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by terzoscooby (Post 11467171)
I agree with the bigger bang makes torque but if the gas cannot then get out of the cylinder you get heat soak and pumping losses and retard ignition

On a 'regular' engine, the exhaust valves are belt/chain driven (non adjustable/mechanically driven) and with the piston heading north at 90mph towards the open exhaust valve, that gas is coming out whether you like it or not.

Are you talking about the vvt tuning on the exhaust cam?

rob84 11 July 2014 06:24 PM

If each car is being setup individually, what fuel are you using. Are you stating one specific type or a broad range from 97 to 99 as this will have a big factor into the figures being lower than Scoobyclinics if your trying to go broad scale.

lower RON fuel you are no going to want huge amounts of torque from a 97 as it would most likely not take the timing so would det for fun...


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