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dpb 22 June 2017 01:05 PM

All the relevant local authorities are to be informed about the combustible cladding they commissioned in the first place

what a farce

andy97 22 June 2017 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by dpb (Post 11948412)
Is it a crime ?

Yes, face upto 6 months in prison and deported there after. If they managed to collect any benefits, that is fraud aswell

Siezure of previous earnings is allowed, but I'd expect nigh on impossible to achieve

My letting agent has a duty not to accept any illegal immigrants and report them to the police/border enforcement.

Why were these illegals allowed to rent property?

dpb 22 June 2017 02:23 PM

Benefits without NI number ?

andy97 22 June 2017 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by dpb (Post 11948444)
Benefits without NI number ?

Until very recently fraud was rife and quite easy to get an NI number. How much of a crack down has taken place is speculation. I'd be interested to know if more rigourous checks have had the desired result

dpb 22 June 2017 02:33 PM

How exactly does it work Andy

Anyway , its a drop in the proverbial ocean , relatively

hodgy0_2 22 June 2017 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 11947655)
P.S. In Skiathos at the moment. Took the brother-in-law's boat over to Arkos yesterday, threw the anchor in and pitched ourselves at a rather exclusive little taverna. Sharing the shade with us were the owners of an impressive yacht. Clearly new money, their faux posh accents occasionally betrayed their roots and did so with more regularity as the glasses of wine despatched increased in number. Quite how I bit my tongue I'll never know, but the attitude of these people towards, and I quote, "the lower classes" was nauseating. Oh, and that "bloody grubby lefty" Corbyn would "kill us off". That the working classes would vote to maintain this is, as I said on another thread, absurd.

Fwiw the in-laws made their money in construction. Unashamed, beer swigging, football watching, sweary, working class folk who, in their words, "got lucky". Nothing wrong with getting a break, everything wrong in hating those who didn't.

lucky you Greece is magical

we go to Greece most summers, an island in the Cyclades

I don't think you can beat it tbh, the people are the most friendly and welcoming I have ever met - not false or forced, just sincere human warmth

the Tavernas on the beach, so so easy and you don't get that daft "beach" tax as in France & Italy

we are gong for three weeks in July/August - with extended family and other friends (we holiday in big numbers) and lots of toys - boats etc

and yes that rabid entitlement is nauseating

JTaylor 23 June 2017 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 (Post 11948535)
lucky you Greece is magical

we go to Greece most summers, an island in the Cyclades

I don't think you can beat it tbh, the people are the most friendly and welcoming I have ever met - not false or forced, just sincere human warmth

the Tavernas on the beach, so so easy and you don't get that daft "beach" tax as in France & Italy

we are gong for three weeks in July/August - with extended family and other friends (we holiday in big numbers) and lots of toys - boats etc

and yes that rabid entitlement is nauseating

Yeah, nice lot the Greeks. We're off to Arkos again today where we have a dish called Red Rooster waiting for us. Will be a very boozy lunch! Snorkelling later around the corner which I'm looking forward to.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...9fa5e5a367.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...fbabc1cacb.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...73456cda02.jpg

JTaylor 23 June 2017 09:13 AM

Das boot:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...a5979b1607.jpg

Mythos, the breakfast of champions!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...e69e62323d.jpg

Yamas!

andy97 23 June 2017 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by dpb (Post 11948446)

Anyway , its a drop in the proverbial ocean , relatively

I agree it is a small sum , but like a dripping tap it will add significant amount to the bill.

Dr Hu 23 June 2017 02:02 PM

Population growth LAST YEAR! (2015/16) - 538,000 - mostly down to immigration (ONS figures released yesterday)

Number of Social Housing built - 27,120 (latest figures available 2013/14)

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out this is beyond unsustainable!

dpb 23 June 2017 04:10 PM

Shouldn't the social housing be reserved for workers ?


id hazard a guess the proportion immigrants in social housing v indigenous is pretty small

dpb 23 June 2017 07:56 PM

Hotpoint , the most ubiquitous Standard for white goods country wide...

Wouldn't be at all surprised

ALi-B 24 June 2017 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by dpb (Post 11948731)
Hotpoint , the most ubiquitous Standard for white goods country wide...

Wouldn't be at all surprised


The next question: is the polystyrene insulation in the fridge flame retardant?

Fridges/freezers shouldn't catch fire. I had one make a fizz and bang (starter attached to compressor got water on it and shorted out, but did so in a "safe" manner - blew the fuse). And one where the capillary tube blocked up just caused the compressor to bang about until the thermal overload kicked in (then repeated every 15mins when it self-reset, again fail-safe).

Unless its a frost free unit...

They DO catch fire, because of the defrost heater element (something that gets very hot sat next to insulation and plastic). Beko were notorious for this.

Surprise surprise I googled the model number and "heater element" is listed as a spare part :rolleyes:

Maybe fire standard for home appliances should be looked at as well?

tony de wonderful 24 June 2017 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by ALi-B (Post 11948936)
The next question: is the polystyrene insulation in the fridge flame retardant?

Fridges/freezers shouldn't catch fire. I had one make a fizz and bang (starter attached to compressor got water on it and shorted out, but did so in a "safe" manner - blew the fuse). And one where the capillary tube blocked up just caused the compressor to bang about until the thermal overload kicked in (then repeated every 15mins when it self-reset, again fail-safe).

Unless its a frost free unit...

They DO catch fire, because of the defrost heater element (something that gets very hot sat next to insulation and plastic). Beko were notorious for this.

Surprise surprise I googled the model number and "heater element" is listed as a spare part :rolleyes:

Maybe fire standard for home appliances should be looked at as well?

The Hotpoint fridge issue is still a side issue here. It might have been the source of the fire but it isn't THE reason the tower block was gutted by fire and 79 are missing. THE reason is a failure of the building's fire safety systems, the main one which seems to be the addition of combustible cladding.

dpb 24 June 2017 04:45 PM

No way . Somehow probably gas , has spread through the middle at a guess


got to feel for the displaced , multiple times from one hotel to another

Still least the poor buggers are alive

ALi-B 24 June 2017 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 11949032)
The Hotpoint fridge issue is still a side issue here. It might have been the source of the fire but it isn't THE reason the tower block was gutted by fire and 79 are missing. THE reason is a failure of the building's fire safety systems, the main one which seems to be the addition of combustible cladding.



To me it's relevant though; I have frost-free freezer in a kitchen full of MDF particle cupboard units (excellent kindle to accelerate a fire).

Pretty certain it was labelled as having Pentane insulation which is highly flammable. So really, it affects every household with these appliances.

It's not like you can turn them off when you leave the house like the Creda/hotpoint dryers catching fire...I have never run a clothes dryer when I'm out the house or in bed for this reason as dryers do have this risk. Difficult to avoid with a fridge or freezer.

dpb 24 June 2017 06:24 PM

Is it maybe up to the owner to periodically have them serviced /looked at ?

iv frost free Zanussi (electrolux ) probably 8 years old , no way would I go back to non frost free

tony de wonderful 24 June 2017 11:39 PM


Originally Posted by ALi-B (Post 11949041)
To me it's relevant though; I have frost-free freezer in a kitchen full of MDF particle cupboard units (excellent kindle to accelerate a fire).

Pretty certain it was labelled as having Pentane insulation which is highly flammable. So really, it affects every household with these appliances.

It's not like you can turn them off when you leave the house like the Creda/hotpoint dryers catching fire...I have never run a clothes dryer when I'm out the house or in bed for this reason as dryers do have this risk. Difficult to avoid with a fridge or freezer.

Yeah it's certainly a concern. I used to go away to work for weeks at a time and leave the fridge-freezer on. Now I will certainly consider turning it off which is a PITA since means defrosting freezer.

dpb 26 June 2017 06:15 PM

Are we basically going over board British standards

or have councils been playing with peoples lives all this time and saving money

trevsjwood 26 June 2017 08:28 PM

it's odd, the insulation for Grenfell and it seems lots of other tower blocks, RS 5000, ( is it polystyrene?) which I understand is supplied by an Ipswich based firm, Celotex and passed BR135 for buildings above 18metres, is now failing all the tests now being carried out. The company were confident in their product but have now, understandably, withdrawn it. How can a product which, ok was cheaper, but satisfied at least some conscientious scrutiny, they can't all be cowboys or criminals, now be shown completely unfit for purpose?
Trev

Dr Hu 27 June 2017 11:40 AM

Or, as was suggested in an interview last night they've changed the test to be much more stringent and they now fail the new test..... but nobody seems to be willing to confirm this...

David Lock 27 June 2017 01:01 PM

I am hearing a lot of comment about the shoddy standard of British workmanship. Hundreds of fire doors missing, badly renovated bathrooms leaving access to adjacent flats, boilers not working properly etc etc and of course the bloody cladding f,uck up.
Not once have I heard use of the words "fire extinguisher". I wouldn't dream of living in a property without at least a couple of extinguishers and a fire blanket.

tony de wonderful 27 June 2017 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by David Lock (Post 11949620)
I am hearing a lot of comment about the shoddy standard of British workmanship. Hundreds of fire doors missing, badly renovated bathrooms leaving access to adjacent flats, boilers not working properly etc etc and of course the bloody cladding f,uck up.
Not once have I heard use of the words "fire extinguisher". I wouldn't dream of living in a property without at least a couple of extinguishers and a fire blanket.

Sure but the fire safety of the whole building can't rely upon residents fighting fires with their own private fire extinguishers.

Firstly, the are only use on small fires, secondly, you need training in their proper use, thirdly someone needs to be in the flat to use it.

ALi-B 27 June 2017 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by trevsjwood (Post 11949492)
it's odd, the insulation for Grenfell and it seems lots of other tower blocks, RS 5000, ( is it polystyrene?) which I understand is supplied by an Ipswich based firm, Celotex and passed BR135 for buildings above 18metres, is now failing all the tests now being carried out. The company were confident in their product but have now, understandably, withdrawn it. How can a product which, ok was cheaper, but satisfied at least some conscientious scrutiny, they can't all be cowboys or criminals, now be shown completely unfit for purpose?
Trev

My extension is completely insulated (roof and walls) with Celotex styrene boards. Will have to dig out the build pics to see if the model was stamped on the sheets. My only concern is if an LED downlight fails catastrophically and sets it on fire, although they are fire-rated fittings and installed in semi-enclosed air-space to allow them to breath and not overheat, despite this I've had over 15 of these lights fail, despite the 10yr guarantee.

I fear maybe some of this safety testing or certification is self-regulated or done internally. Or if official/independent, its only carried out on the first batch (a usual trick of Chinese manufacturers whom reduce quality on subsequent batches unbeknown to the wholesaler/importer).

David Lock 27 June 2017 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 11949625)
Sure but the fire safety of the whole building can't rely upon residents fighting fires with their own private fire extinguishers.

Firstly, the are only use on small fires, secondly, you need training in their proper use, thirdly someone needs to be in the flat to use it.

Yes I do understand the limitations on an extinguisher. But they can be useful for silly fires in a property - the chip pan catching fire. a mobile phone charger going up in smoke, grandpa dropping a fag down the back of the sofa. As for training?? Pull the lever and aim the foam at the fire or throw a fire blanket over the gas hob if it catches.

In my non-expert but common sense opinion the key items are proper fire doors which are checked regularly, alarms that work and perhaps a decent sprinkler system in the main body of the block. And rip the cladding off and have a serious rethink about what, if anything, to replace it with. It would help if the elderly and disabled could be accommodated on the lower floors.

David

ALi-B 27 June 2017 09:28 PM


Originally Posted by David Lock (Post 11949671)

In my non-expert but common sense opinion the key items are proper fire doors which are checked regularly, alarms that work and perhaps a decent sprinkler system in the main body of the block. And rip the cladding off and have a serious rethink about what, if anything, to replace it with. It would help if the elderly and disabled could be accommodated on the lower floors.

David

I'm wondering if the cladding was really needed. Or was it on the whim to satisfy some environmental/eco target

I'm often told that concrete structures have excellent thermal properties compared to other construction materials yet these are often the first to be wrapped up in polystyrene during renovation :wonder:

tony de wonderful 27 June 2017 10:24 PM


Originally Posted by ALi-B (Post 11949748)
I'm wondering if the cladding was really needed. Or was it on the whim to satisfy some environmental/eco target

I'm often told that concrete structures have excellent thermal properties compared to other construction materials yet these are often the first to be wrapped up in polystyrene during renovation :wonder:

I believe the way some were system built mean that there were often gaps or bad seals between the concrete sections, although whether this applied to this tower is unclear.

For example, the old Hulme Crecents in Manchester were notoriously badly bolted together leaving tons of room for vermin to fester and mold to grow in the gaps.

David Lock 28 June 2017 01:52 PM

Discussing this with an old engineer pal of mine who is currently working in Abu Dhabi. They have an 850 m tower. Lifts travel at 36 km/hr and top floor can sway about 2 metres. Great view, smog permitting.

Regarding fires they have what are called "safe" rooms every few floors so if there is a problem people can lock themselves out of harm's way.

dl

dpb 06 July 2017 03:57 AM

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...481.html%3Famp

Disliking this government more and more , May is turning into the iron lady

SWRTWannabe 06 July 2017 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by dpb (Post 11951600)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...481.html%3Famp

Disliking this government more and more , May is turning into the iron lady

Why? What should they do? There are house fires every day, and whilst thankfully not on the same scale, it impacts those involved in the same way. Should we say any illegal immigrants who have a house fire should be given amnesty? If that happens, then we're going to need a bigger fire and rescue service.


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