How unpleasant the slaughter industry is is an issue to be dealt with in itself. It is a regulated industry governed by laws and standards which no doubt need to be improved. The fact remains that animal has been farmed for food, it isn't being done for fun. However bad that maybe then doesn't make it excusable to say well if the slaughter industry is nasty then that's fine to be cruel to foxes or any other animal hunted purely for the enjoyment of inflicting cruelty. One wrong doesn't make it OK to then participate in another wrong.

I agree with hunting so long as it is done humanely and the prey that is killed is eaten, whether that be rabbit, pheasant or deer. Killing something for the enjoyment of killing it such as trophy hunting and then discarding it afterwards is simply wrong.

Pest control is something completely different and there is no argument that can be possibly put forward to say that hunting a fox with a pack of hounds is the most efficient and successful way to control fox populations. A rifle with a telescopic night sight used by someone trained and licensed in that method of pest control, normally from a deer platform or equivalent structure is the most efficient way. If it's suggested shooting is not a good way because of injury, that to me is not the method that is wrong but the fact someone not properly trained is doing it.

You're confusing the issue. The statement was that while you decry the killing of a fox by hounds you will happilly tuck into a piece of meat regardless that the the animal concerned has died an unpleasant death. Absolving yourself of blame by citing poor standards in a regulated industry is a cheap cop out. And you appear to know nothing about shooting foxes with a rifle.

It's you who seems to be confusing the issue. The very fact that the slaughter industry is regulated means that it's at least feasible to make improvements in the way food animals are killed, should improvement be necessary. By contrast, the manner of death for a fox hunted with hounds will always be the same (unless you're proposing that the hounds be muzzled or fitted with jaw-guards of some kind, which I doubt very much would be practical).

I used to feel very angry when we would occasionally find a run full of dead chickens, killed by foxes for no purpose other than, one presumes, the fun of killing them.

I therefore have no problem with hounds killing foxes, just as I have no problem when I shoot them with a rifle. You obviously believe that regulation makes the unpleasant deaths of many thousands of farmed animals each day to be perfectly acceptable, whereas the killing of foxes by hounds is to be abhorred. A strange set of values to say the least.

Since you're so insistent on the fact that all animals slaughtered for food suffer an unpleasant death, would you mind telling us whether you yourself are vegetarian? If not, why not?

That's the part I struggle with too, if you eat meat then you're an accomplice, it's no different to receiving stolen goods or aiding and abetting, you just missed out the business end of the crime but you'll still do time as co-accused.

Despite what people think, all animals have an un-pleasant death, it's never pretty, there is always a moment when they are aware they are about to die.

Because your chicken drummers come in a nice package then it's fine to eat, there is no relationship to the bird that once was, but someone killed that bird, it knew it was coming for some considerable time, while it was hung up-side down on a conveyor belt before it got stunned and had it's throat cut and was ripped to pieces, much like your sausages and bacon belonged to a pigs gut, ever heard the squeal they make when they know their impending doom is nigh?

What a daft question. No of course I'm not, but are you? You're the one whining about the deaths of verminous foxes and as a comparison I've pointed out that animals farmed for food endure deaths that can be similarly unpleasant. But I see the deaths of both as a necessity. This doesn't mean I have to live on lettuce and carrots to hold those views.

Right, so what it comes down to basically is two things, and whether or not you or I acknowledge they're true:
1. While it may not be perfect, the slaughter industry does at least try to minimize suffering to animals.
2. As a method of population control, hunting with hounds is neither among the most humane or effective available.

I personally believe the facts are broadly in support of both the above statements, and I'd be interested to know why you think otherwise.

Well of course we could argue this for ever. However, I have witnessed both your 1. and your 2. Have you? If you have, and have no problem with the miseries of the slaughterhouse then I don't understand your objections to foxes being killed by hounds.

The main issue is, WHY THE HELL DOES THIS TRIVIAL ISSUE GET SO MUCH ATTENTION IN THE MEDIA?!!

I would say the main issue is why waste valuable parliamentary time with it

And why the sneaky back door tactics

It's bad law and the attempt to change it was hardly by the back door as it was very well publicised. It would have been done and dusted by now if it hadn't been for the interference of Ms Sturgeon and her little brigade of yes men. Scotland staying out of English and Welsh affairs? Yeah, right.:mad:

She has my utmost admiration, well done to her. :thumb: Cameron is c**t!

The question was whether you think the slaughter industry tries to keep animal suffering to a minimum. Are you honestly saying you think it makes no effort at all to do that?

No, you are very confused. Killing an animal for fun such as fox hunting is not the same as the meat industry slaughtering animals for human consumption. So I have no issues in eating meat because that animal has been killed legally and within the current standards of the industry for the purposes of being eaten. A fox is killed for fun and the lust for blood when thrown to the pack of dogs. How you think the two are even remotely comparable is laughable.

As for knowing nothing about killing foxes with a rifle you may carry out that task however you like but I have seen professional pest controllers shoot foxes from platforms as an effective way to get a clean shot and greatly increase the vision you can't possibly get from being at ground level.

Nail on head. In a similar vein dog fighting was a working class pastime but was rightly outlawed ages ago. Cruelty to animals in the form of sport/entertainment/tradition blah blah is plain wrong.