Andy, please don't go, this board needs you and other nice, genuine people just like you to keep it going and make it a worthwhile place to spend a bit of time in :)

Sal

juan,

Give it a rest.

Your argument is complete crap.

I bet you don't hear many chinese people happily going off to get a 'Chinky' meal.

I am an Aussie, and proud of it. Aussie has NEVER been a derogatory term, and never will be.

Terms such as Chink, Nigger, Paki etc have always been used in a derogatory, racist manner.

I can't believe that someone who is not from one of the affected racial groups can argue that a term is not offensive.

I have every right as an Australian to say that Aussie is not offensive, but who are you to say what is offensive to someone of Chinese, Pakistani or African origin ?

Similarly, walk into a pub in Northern Ireland and call someone paddy or walk down the street in Edinburgh and call someone Jock and see how quick you are sat on you're arse :)

This whole pile of crap just makes me feel so [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Andrew.

BTW, Andy don't go. Wankers like this are the reason that you have to stay. Every 'good guy' that stays dilutes the effects of the 'bad guys'

Andy m8

There are a few people who feel the way you do and so there is a different BBS that feels like SN used to so if you want so good old fashioned fun then have a look at the CS bbs.

Mike

AndrewW I totally agree with you on that one m8.

It's people like Juan who are so blinkered in their ways that saying what they like thats caused this crap to rise its nasty head, theres no need for it, would he go up to someone who is Pakistani, African, Negro, Chinese or Asian? and give it large about it because he'd be flattened within 10 seconds, guaranteed.

Andy
Please don't go you've been here as long as I can remember. I have learnt an awful lot from you over the last few years, your input has been invaluable and your knowledge is immense one of the few I can count on one hand.

Just ignore what's going on don't let the prattle of a few put you off - it always goes this way then it gets back to normal again.

Stay

Penni (remember I introduced myself at the surprise party and you thought I was..... but I'll forgive you for that as I took it as a compliment) ... please stay.

jeez this is outrageous. Did I say I used those terms?
I just said that there are terms for all nationalities. I hate racism and have NEVER EVER knowingly been racist in my life. I've lived in several foreign countries and enjoy experiencing the cultures and the people.

I've experienced racism from the other side in limited quantities in places like Hong Kong and France. Big deal.

I have never used the words chink or paki myself to describe someone and never would.

BUT whats the difference between Paki being short for Pakistani and Brit being short for British? eh?

I'm not defending racists at all. I knew some of you would have a go at me for my post. Fair enough but why not read what I'm saying? Have you never said 'Lets go for a chinky tonight'? That just is not racist. Its slang.

oh and incidentally,
Plenty of my Chinese friends in UK use the term Chinky for a chinese takeaway so stick that in your pipe and smoke it. I am speaking from personal experience. Are you, or you just assuming?

I have friends from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds (Black, loads of Chinese, Asian, European). None would ever call me racist and they know me well. You don't. Where did I say I used any of those terms in a derogatory manner if thats your accusation????


[Edited by juan - 3/13/2002 1:54:30 PM]

Juan,

I wasnt going to post on this subject but your comments are unbelievable!!!

You really are talking utter sh1te mate!!!!!!!

The fact you dont THINK using these words is offensive is exactly the point and the reason Andy feels he's had enough.

To you it may seem "nothing".... but to the offended party it DOES!!! Therefore your being offensive with your comments...

You cant say "im not a racist" and then use terms like "going down the chinky" !!!!!!!! thats a racist comment!!!!!!!

I really hate people who talk sh1te like you...... saying they aren't one thing, and then being it straight after with their actions!!!

I'd like Andy to stay and let the moderators sort this out.

There shouldnt be any racism/sexism/ or any type of offensiveism (:D) on this board. It shouldnt be tolerated and if it means members get banned then im all for it.

We live in the 2000's, not the dark ages.

Jza

well I guess different folks have different ideas then. Like I said, plenty of my Chinese friends use the term. Are they being racist?

Sorry if I have offended some people. I was not condoning use of any words, merely saying that many are now spoken more as slang rather than in a derogatory manner.

---------------

Definition:
racism -- the notion that some ethnic groups or races are naturally superior to others. Racism has probably existed ever since separate races came into being.

Where have I acted in this way?

'Racist' is a very strong insult to throw around. I have just been called it by several people and why? because I use a popular slang term for a Chinese Takeaway, the same slang term my Chinese friends use? Nice one guys


Andrew W
Where have I actually singled someone out and abused them. Nowhere that I can see, unlike your own foul mouthed posts.
Ever called anyone a (whinging) Pom?


[Edited by juan - 3/13/2002 4:05:04 PM]

Andy,don't leave just because of a few idiots.
Good luck with the job at BRD & thanks for all your help re my Prodrive ECU!Cheers,John.

You cant say "im not a racist" and then use terms like "going down the chinky" !!!!!!!! thats a racist comment!!!!!!!

I knew this would start to get stupid....

Juan, guys, let's get off the soapbox for a minute.

There's not right or wrong in this ... all depends on situation, how well you know someone, personal feelings.

Andy is a guy with a big sense of humor... he's been called "tart" more times than he is called Andy ;), but he didn't like the c-word comments ... maybe we should respect that a little ? Give him some slack etc ?

There's a time & place for everything I suppose ... Sunilp used to call me EuroTrash, I called him curry muncher etc... it was understood by both parties that this was OK. If not, I would have refrained immediately from further calling him that, not because I'm PC, but because I don't really enjoy hurting people's feelings.

Calling Juan a racist is a bit OTT as well though IMHO. He is trying to discuss things, disagree with his POV if you like, but that doesn't make him a racist... true racists don't use much discussion BTW ... they act :(

There is no (no pun intented) black & white in this.

Theo

juan,

you say in your post that these 'slang' terms are in everyday use and therefore aren't racist.

The fact that a term is in common usage does not in any way diminish the effect when used in a racist connotation.

In answer to your question, No I have never used the term 'Lets go out for a chinky meal'. To be honest, I've never even heard the expression before these threads appear. It must be slang that's only in common usage south of the border :rolleyes:

There is no point continuing this argument. Like discussion about politics and religion, neither side will ever concede any point made by the other.

Hmm, didn't see your other post, so my replies ...

No, you haven't singled someone out, but you are trying to perpetuate the myth that these words/expressions are OK to use, even though the people being described by the terms do not like it.

Also, please explain the foul mouthed posts bit ? The strongest words used in my post were crap and wanker. As you said yourself ... ' some people seem to expect a completely sterile society with no swearing, no slang etc'. Pot. Kettle. Black :rolleyes:

Honestly, no, but you are in contention for being the first :)

Andrew.



[Edited by AndrewW - 3/13/2002 5:00:55 PM]

Hmmmmm, im no racist but where i live everyone (including the chinese) call it a "chinky". Most of the people that work in a "chinese takaway" are British anyway. Its not seen as racist here im afraid just an everyday word! Just because someone says its racist on here doesnt actually mean it is! Ordering a "chinky" is a describing a MEAL not a PERSON! Its could and usually is made by anyone.

[Edited by Carlos The Jackel - 3/13/2002 6:24:03 PM]

Andy,

I was the person who first mentioned the 'French' The reason being is because often people start out by saying 'I'm not racist...but' The point is that people will always have an opinion about something, i.e Race,colour,creed,size,colour of hair,etc,etc,etc. As long as people realise this and don't act upon it there's no problem. HOWEVER, if they HAVE got a problem, well they're at the bottom of the pit because ultimately we're all human beings and they should realise that..

I REALLY sorry if any of my remarks offended you, this was never the case and the furthest thing from my mind and was never intended.

What ever you decide to do I wish you all the best,

Ed

same as carlos here.

So long Tango.

Shame.

The ship will sail on.

Thanks for letting us know.

Take care.

Whats most depressing is that even your leaving thread gets turned into a debate about racism. Cannot blame you for going andy.

Your well loved on here, Take it easy.;)

Well as you can see not a regular in here. I am surprised it has taken you so long to realise what purile drivel is written in here. I only looked in here tonight as I cannot get into another site...I was in here at the inception and how quickly it degenerated probably in line with the Scoob becoming a car for the masses rather than the enthusiast.
You make a comment about never using the phrase 'going to the chinky' I presume you live in Scotland I used to and certainly that phrase was commonplace..not meant as an insult just the generic term for a Chinese meal/takeaway.
Anyway will probably come back in another 12 months and see what has happened
Steve

I think I've decided to leave Scoobynet! :(

I used to enjoy the Muppet Forum, but the mood has changed there! :(

I always thought the board wasn't about serious issues, except cars, but the racism thread has put me off! People seem to be making light of a serious topic close to my heart! :( It won't long before it's in the muppet forum.

I'm sick of reading "My car is better than an Impreza" threads.

I'm sick of the manner and imaturity that some of the threads are answered with.

So I will turn up to meets with people I now consider friends, but I think that my contribution to Scoobynet is not worth the abuse I sometimes get back.

Enjoy what used to be my favourite website.

Thanks
Andy

[Edited by Andy Tang - 3/12/2002 12:56:02 AM]

Andy,

Don't let the b4$t4rd$ grind you down. :(
But if I don't see on scoobynet I am sure I will see you around and how can I forget your dancing at Brighton Pier. :)

Cheers


David
Formerly known as Lushman


[Edited by RalphLauren - 3/12/2002 2:05:38 AM]

Andy

Don't leave.

If this board seems like it's going bad - stay here and help us fix it!

It's a big community now and naturally this means that we get all kinds of people on here.

It doesn't mean that we're all bad, in fact I would suggest that most of the people on here are like minded honest-to-goodness car enthusiasts.
Maybe we don't all agree on everything. Maybe one man's crap thread is another's fun. Does that really matter?

The racism issue is different. I know exactly where you were coming from on the "RACIST?" thread (see my own contribution) and I too was disappointed by how it has now become a joke thread.
Surely though it is an opportunity to provide your point of view for the overall benefit of the community.
Simply turning your back on the problem won't resolve anything...

I know I don't know you personally, so please forgive the lecture!

All the best mate

Rich :)

[Edited by RichS - 3/12/2002 10:16:10 AM]

Andy,
Can understand why you have made your decision. Glad to see that you'll still be at the meets, as you say, with people you know.

Craig and others have a point, lurk around here, rather than leaving.

Things have gone downhill somewhat, maybe more moderators are needed to cut out the crap that has turned up on here. maybe not, i don't know.

As for people saying "if you leave so what?" well, you do know what you're talking about, well, seems that way to me ;) and thus your comments and opinions on techy stuff are appreciated and welcomed.

also, who else is going to take the pi$$ out of a certain green WRX? ;) (Sorry Mark, or is it Matt? ;):D:D)

[Edited by Markus - 3/12/2002 10:30:21 AM]

I discovered ScoobyNet less than a year ago and since then I've had a lot of questions answered and learnt an awful lot more about my car and Scoobs in general. I've managed to sell a pile of bits that were sat on my landing, provided feedback on new products being developed and at times have evan cried with laughter at some of the threads.

I've also met one or two of the people here (usually via a well known garage in Basildon!) and they have without exception been genuinely nice people and equally helpful in the flesh.

On the flip side I have read one or two threads that havn't been too pleasant and with a community the nature and size of ScoobyNet we are going to see these bad threads from time to time. I believe that the moderators do a good job here in spite of the criticism they sometimes receive for being too repressive. They can't, however, be everywhere at once....or can they?

I'm probably going to need to don my flame proof suit and close the bunker door behind me at this point because I believe that we also need to play a role. One of the best ways to kill a bad discussion thread is to not respond, just leave it to drift into obscurity as other threads climb over it. Some of the worst threads I have seen are also ironically the longest! If someone is trying to be deliberately provocative nothing is more frustrating to them than seeing no-one rise to the bait.

The decision to log on or not is entirely your own but I hope that you will be around to help answer some of my idiot questions in the future.


[Edited by Anthony King - 3/12/2002 10:59:59 AM]

Andy

Yes ,I made a comment about the Welsh and French (Cant stand their Apples)

I can enjoy a laugh... But God help anyone who Bullied someone in front of me. I have witnessed a muslim been spat on in London. Size was not important. That guy had to wipe someone elses spit off his clothes. The guy who did it had to wipe Dog **** off His...

But would agree humour can go a bit OTT.

[Edited by Luke - 3/12/2002 11:03:40 AM]

Its a shame Andy :(

Its been just over a year now since I joined the scoob community and you were one of the first people I met and a key factor in me always harping on about what a great community it is and what fantastic people I've met through it. Oh, and someone whos mods I could aspire to ;) :D :p

Indeed - the cars themselves are good - but its the community that makes it special. Your cars better than mine blah blah blah, but so what, IMHO the scoob community is something I have never come across with other makes and clubs and that is what makes Subaru a special car to own/have owned ;).

Its a real shame it got to this mate - but I for one will probably see you at the meets ;):)

All the best.
Neil.

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 3/12/2002 11:55:06 AM]

Andy,
we have never met but have spoken a few times in chat a while ago and you have always come across as a great person who would always go the extra mile, if it meant that you could help others.

The only way people will be able to see that there opinion that someone who is different to themselves because of there ethnic background or skin colour etc is wrong and that stereo typing does not work is to remain and to confront them. For surely the only way to show them that there preconceptions are wrong is to just be yourself! For it is only from knowing the individual that they will learn about the group that they hold the inaccurate view of!

We all in society are given roles that we did not ask for or maybe want, them being neighbour, guardian etc and a society should be judged by its ability for its individual members to carry out these duties. Maybe why our society is in the mess it is in now is because people are not willing or prepared to accept that to be part of a society these roles have to be carried out. The more people that give up when confronted by this behaviour then the worse our society will get.
Not having a go at you Andy just sharing my thoughts on the issue of Racism etc.

I hope you decide to stay on Scoobynet as it would be a far worse place if you was to give in to it!
Regards ian

[Edited by ian/555 - 3/12/2002 12:17:18 PM]

yep you are,

you also missed the part where i said it used to be fun to read, i wasn't just harping technical.

[Edited by ptholt - 3/12/2002 2:56:39 PM]

Gordo

Agreed the distinction is subjective.
That's why this is such a difficult topic.

I didn't intend to suggest, though, that your post itself wasn't serious.

Cheers

Rich :)


[Edited by RichS - 3/12/2002 4:28:36 PM]

Andy

I have never met you but you seem to be a well respected member of the community and you obviously have plenty of technical knowledge to contribute. It is a shame you feel that you have to go but I do know how you feel (except perhaps for the racism bit) and I have spoken to a few other 'longer serving members' who feel the same.

I don't think it is any one thing but a contribution of all the pointless and antagonistic threads, which have contributed to the deterioration of the overall quality and atmosphere of Scoobynet IMHO.

It is all very well to say ignore it but there comes a point when the time/effort needed to wade through the crap to get to some quality stuff outweighs the pleasure of being on Scoobynet. Even when you do find a good thread it often degenerates in to an argument or slagging match.

For those who have said Andy's post was dull and that the replies to say he will be missed are "fundamentally pointless", well, if you think that showing someone how much they are thought of/respected etc is pointless then i think maybe you are the one wasting space on the thread not them, whether it is your opinion or not.

I don't post as often as i used to due to the above points but still lurk to see what is about in Southern/Track/Gallery/Drivetrain. Perhaps something will happen in the near future to improve things following the thread relating to this.

I do hope so.

Tiring Scoobynet member
Rikki

EDIT TO SAY: Also there is a difference in quitting and leaving a situation you are not happy with and have little or no power to change.

[Edited by Rikki 95WRX - 3/12/2002 8:01:35 PM]