"it would be a case of any method should a rabies outbreak occur"

Hunting on horseback? I'd say a bit of poison and some traps would be more effective than toffs in red blazers playing the trumpet.

Its for enjoyment, end of story. I wish everyone involved would own up to this!

hmm last one!!

ask hmg if poison & traps were effective lastime round?

trouble is if you want to know youve got all of them, you cant wait for a headcount,

getting out there and actually hunting them down is the only way...

would it be ok if they all drove landrovers and used people to chase the bu**ers

if foxes wernt in the equation would it be acceptable??

what worrys me is what will they move on to banning if they succeed??


the next participant sport is the biggest in the uk and has

millions of participants and it isnt football! and its taxed!!!

Mart

Fishing?

Fishing then?

Chip.

National Hunt Racing, followed by Flat Racing and then...........well who knows ?

Well I think fishing is really cruel;) Fancy enticing a fish onto a nice juicy maggot then spending ages reeling it in only to keep it in a mesh net til it dies in agony. How cruel can you get.

And whats more, if it doesnt die or wriggles then whack it on the bonce with a stick. How cruel can one be I ask.

Makes fox hunting seem tame by comparison.

Chip.

[Edited by Chip - 12/28/2003 9:50:22 PM]

I use to fish and I think that is obviously cruel the fish must suffer pain and shock yet they target Fox hunting first because of the snobbery issue but once they have banned that they will get to fishing and if you can't justify hunting then on the same logic fishing has no chance.

Also if they ban fox hunting what will happen to the hounds? About 20,000 to be shot in one go still might save a couple of hundred foxes so that will be ok then!

Best bet is to get the government to have to destroy them at least people will see the consequences of their snobbery. Televised destruction of 1000 dogs at a time that will make the anti hunt supporters happy. Or maybe all the members of league against cruel sports will each re-home 2 -3 so they can live out a peace full life

What a sad day for the country.

No I don’t hunt but I do believe in the right of people to have freedom of choice

But if you ban fishing who will sue the water companies and other industrial companies that continue to poolute our lakes and rivers ?

The vast majority of anglers and quite caring about the environment. I used to run a lake and 95% of the anglers were decent caring people. I spent a great deal of time educating people about fish handling to ensure the best interests of the fish. No fish were deliberately killed, and no fish were retained in keepnets or sake which I personally think was a very good move.

Unfortunately the whole lake was wiped out by some scumbag poluters who destroyed 20 years of hard work and a thriving eco system.

It is wrong to put fishing and foxhunting in the same bracket. Anglers are taked, need a liceince, pay for the right to fish and thier income is responsible for many jobs in tourism and other trades and they do not go out to kill animals that were not bred for the purpose of stocking into lakes. game fishing is different to some degreee but many of the trout are farmed anyway.

If you want to talk about cruelty to animals look at how an average fishing boat opperates and how many immature undersized fish get crushed to death or suffocated and then returnd back to the sea dead. That is why cod stocks are in such extreme danger at present.



AllanB

Im a fisherman, and I hunt with rifles for what its worth, I eat everything I catch or shoot. That is life IMO. Take away supermarkets and everyone would be looking hard at Mr Wabbit etc :D

Glad to see so many pro fox hunters on here :rolleyes:

My opinion is that I would take much pleasure from knocking the trumped up ponses off their fcuking horses and hunting them down like they do the foxes.

Controlling the fox population? What a load of boll0x. Its all for blood thirsty pleasure and I for one deplore anyone who takes part in such a sport. I fully support hunt sabateurs :)

As for fishing I do coarse fishing, mainly for carp. How anyone can compare a blood thirsty sport such as fox hunting to fishing is beyond me and shows what little knowledge and in fact complete ignorance of fishing and its methods those people have.

When carp or any fish are caught in coarse fishing they are returned to the water 99.9% of the time unharmed. Any that are diseased are treated with anti bacterial liquid that is caried in our fishing gear which most anglers have. Its standard practice to look after the fish because we want them to grow and grow and be healthy, the last thing we want is injured/dead and sick fish.

If carp for example were so stressed by such activity they wouldn't survive the constant catching and certainly wouldn't grow at the rate they do and to the weights they do - over 60lb in this country. They are returned to the water within a couple of minutes although it has been scientifically proven they can survive for well over 15 minutes out of ther water. Hands are washed/dipped in the lake to reduce any heat damage to the fish and generally the fish is treated with extreme care including treatment for infections etc.

How anyone can say thats the same behaviour as hunting a wild animal and tearing it to pieces with hounds is just plain fcuking stupid :rolleyes:

Game fishing is different but then fishing for Trout and Salmon is for food (the fish are not allowed to be returned to the water) so killing the fish serves a purpose - to eat it for dinner - still not the same as ripping a fox apart with dogs.

[Edited by ************** - 12/29/2003 1:33:54 PM]

I would like to invite fox hunters to try and explain what pleasure/goal they gain from fox hunting.

(But I doubt there are any fox hunters on Scoobynet :rolleyes:)

Oh yes there are.

Chip.

About four hours ago.........

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QAC*A...53340728464133

Attended my first hunt the other day.

Like many people on here I had a preconceived idea what it would be like based on media reports. Unfortunately many people on here have clearly shown a stunning ignorance of the facts. Perhaps the most ignorant post is B2Os.

I went with an open mind unsure whether I was pro or anti as I was neutral and willing to listen to both sides of the argument.

Firstly, the class issue is pathetic. It is not "toffs" in red jackets. The hunt here in Devon is normal local people such as farmers. The whole class issue is irrelevant. Does it matter if carp fishermen are aristocracy or working class peasants?

Secondly, the fox is definately vermin and kills livestock, fact. I questioned why they did not use other methods of pest control and to be fair there are pros and cons of all alternatives.

The people concerned were definately not blood thirsty. The fox had gone to ground and terriers were sent down the hole to chase it out. The person in charge of the terriers had a small gun and the fox was shot humanely in the head before it was removed from the ground. I commented that "I thought it was killed by the hounds" and they looked at me as if I was mad.

It was still a bit distateful when the hounds set on the dead body of the fox. The hounds left it after a minute or two and went on to the next scent.

I also asked about the practice of wiping the blood on kids and newbies and again they said this was nonsense and never done.

They all seemed to be a perfectly rational normal bunch of people who love the countryside and have a general love of all animals.

I know this won't change anyones opinion but at least my opinion is now based on facts seen with my own eyes and not on very ignorant and misinformed views.

Crapaud
I think its a case that the townies and the countryside mob just dont understand each others way of life. Also think the townies are a little bit ignorant of what actually happens.

I dont hunt personally but I know a few who do and theyare certainly not toffs or part of the aristocracy.

Chip.

Chip

Exactly right.

Cheers mate


Ps I retract my comments about the Welsh:)

Whether toffs or not there are plenty of hunts where the dogs do kill the fox and its not shot first :rolleyes: and I never said all hunts were a toffs only event did I? No, didn't think so!

If its going to be shot then why let dogs chase it? Why not just shoot it in the first place? Tracking an animal and shooting it humanely I really don't have much issue with (apart from when its done by someone who hasn't got a clue about how to shoot/bad shot)

Also trapping a fox in a cage and checking the cage within 24hours of laying it and shooting it in the cage to me is a far more humane way of controlling pests than what is currently done.

Hunting is for pleasure and nothing else!

Its the chasing for miles and miles, digging it out and letting a pack of hounds rip it to pieces that I have an issue with :rolleyes:

And Crapaud please explain why you think my post is the most ignorant. I think you may be the ignorant one if you think mr fox is killed humanely by all the hunts in Great Britain :rolleyes:

[Edited by ************** - 12/29/2003 5:24:44 PM]

************** has a valid view point, his view point, and it should be responded to and respected as such. If ignorance is 'not knowing' then lets discuss, debate and educate.

--I also asked about the practice of wiping the blood on kids and newbies and again they said this was nonsense and never done--

I've been on hunts m8 and I'm sorry but I have seen it done, perhaps this 'practice' has changed lately. It was in the media not so, long ago, with pictures, that Price William was seen being 'blooded'.

If the fox is an indiscriminate killer then that is its nature. We killed off all its natural enemies like wolves and bears long ago. Why?

The best way to kill a fox is with a high powered rimfire rifle, not with a pistol. If the fox escaped why use terriers to bring it to ground. Is that sporting? We all know killing one single fox makes little difference to the control issue.

What about badger baiting and hunting with terriers, I know for a ‘fact’ that the same people participate in both of these ‘sports’, why is a badger any different.

I suppose if we managed to make the fox practically extinct then we would soon have to protect it, its a mad world.

All IMHO.